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askiptochina
Joined: 26 Feb 2010 Posts: 488 Location: Beijing
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Posted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 9:00 am Post subject: What is a normal high school schedule? |
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I teach mostly at a high school, and when I first came they scheduled me with very few days of teaching. I would do a lot of classes on 2 or 3 days, sometimes 4. This always gave me at least one day off, and the school was relatively close to my apartment.
Now, the school moved to a new location, and I have to take a bus. Lunch is 2 hours, so if I have a class before lunch, I have put in over 3 hours for just one 40 minute class. Then I have to come back to the school and they usually have me only teach 1 class after lunch before having me sit in the office for my next class. This then translates into two 40 minute classes, two bus trips (~40 minutes for the bus) from 11:15 to 3:35 ( 4 hours 20 minutes). Then I teach 1 more class, and again sit for 30 minutes until my last class. In the end, I have done 4 or 5 classes (~3 hours) that day over 6.5 hour span of time. Multiply that out, 4 or 5 days a week, and I lose 15 hours a week just sitting around waiting for the next class.
They just emailed me now saying they want me to teach top classes more often. They scheduled only 2 for Monday, one before lunch and one after lunch. Is everyone else's schedule this split up? Common sense would say to schedule 2 classes in the morning or afternoon.
What is the limit in China? In Korea, public schools never did this. They always scheduled me in blocks of 3 or 4 classes in a row. Before the summer classes started in July, things went rather smoothly. Now, my hours are getting stretched for the same amount of work. I would rather they didn't do that and stuck to blocks of 3 or 4 with one occasional break in between if they need it. |
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The Great Wall of Whiner

Joined: 29 Jan 2003 Posts: 4946 Location: Blabbing
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Posted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 11:15 am Post subject: |
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Another post that gives weight to a punch clock system and an hourly rate.
You arrive at the school, punch in.
You leave the school, punch out.
Get paid for the time the school takes away from you.
I'm not sure what we fellow teachers can do for you. What's the limit in China, you ask?
There is no limit, I'm afraid. |
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tianfuoe
Joined: 25 May 2011 Posts: 36
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Posted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 3:48 pm Post subject: |
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Unfortunately, it is what it is. Your schedule. Generally speaking, most schools will not put your exact schedule into your contract. However, all this "travel/wait" time is a chip you can use when negotiating next years contract. If it will cost them less money, they will arrange your schedule in a more compact time frame. Start making notes of the "wait/dead" time each day. Also, keep a log of the travel time each day. Use Excel to put together a complete calendar of all the wasted unpaid time that your current schedule is costing you.
Does your school have dormitories? Can you get a room so that you can at least relax during this downtime? |
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choudoufu

Joined: 25 May 2010 Posts: 3325 Location: Mao-berry, PRC
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Posted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 3:55 pm Post subject: Re: What is a normal high school schedule? |
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askiptochina wrote: |
I teach mostly at a high school...Now, the school moved to a new location.... |
they moved the whole high school?
so....how 'bout you? can you move to a new place? |
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askiptochina
Joined: 26 Feb 2010 Posts: 488 Location: Beijing
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Posted: Sat Sep 17, 2011 4:25 am Post subject: |
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Yes, they moved the whole school. I guess there are 3 buildings. I only go to two of them for the 10th and 11th graders. However, it seems like 12th graders are at a different location. At lunch time it's like a concert letting out or sports event. 1500 students leave on their bicycles and come back at 2pm. Some stay though and eat in the cafeteria. I have yet to try their food.
I went to the language school, my employer, to talk about this. They said that they initiated this schedule and that the public school actually wanted me to teach the type of schedule where you aren't sitting around doing nothing. I have basically 2 lessons to prepare because I go to all the classes for 10th and 11th. I don't need to plan a new lesson if the class is at the same level. Maybe add things for advanced students, but still that's only 4 lessons at most.
The big difference here is not only location but they are scheduling things like 2 part-time jobs instead of block classes. I could move, and I asked this in June when a student gave me the heads up on the move. They told me they signed a 1 year lease with the landlord and couldn't change. It actually hasn't been bad these past few weeks. They have scheduled 4 days of "messy scheduling" and I figured one day off is not a bad compromise considering my previous employer wanted me to work 6 days a week. Now that they are trying to do 5 days, I am trying to get them to understand that they need to schedule me in blocks of 3 or 4 (not 2 in the morning and 2 in the afternoon). That way, at the end of the day, I have done 4 or 6 classes. If 4, then that would mean my morning or afternoon were free.
I'll comment more on a potential complaint some schools and teachers might bring up here.
Quote: |
Another post that gives weight to a punch clock system and an hourly rate. |
That is fine for a language school where you get paid like 10,000-12,000, you do about 25 classes and then 15 hours office time (which still is not good in my opinion). Some teachers like this, to each their own. I don't and have been lucky with jobs where I would teach my classes and then be done. I am taking a lower salary job in exchange for these freedoms, but I don't want that to be replaced with an ineffective schedule.
The language school today told me, "Well you can ride a bicycle and eat in the cafeteria instead." I then explained that 2 hours in the cafeteria is way more time than I needed to just eat a bowl of noodles and that the cafeteria is not some time machine erasing the loss of 8 hours a week that I would spend there or the office (which they suggested).
I made an offer to do one more class hour (40 minutes) during the first or second part of the lunch period. Then, either I teach another block in the afternoon or go home. The language school didn't comprehend this at first and said, "But you will still take the bus home."
Yea? But I won't take the bus back, that is the point. These people are not playing with a full deck.
Another reason why I don't like the punch card system is that when you break it down to the hour, then every hour is counted against you. If you don't teach that hour, then you don't get paid. I want to commit to a monthly salary, not an hourly rate. So, on Monday last week, I had 6 classes scheduled. It was mid-autumn festival, and we had the day off. I am still going to get paid even though I didn't teach them, and the school has not rescheduled. I don't know how that would work with a punch card system. At what point would you get "credit" for those classes? More likely, never. The school would use that as a justification for not paying you a full salary.
Another incident came up where the language school (they are really the thorn in this, the public school is much nicer to work at) tried get me to teach "extra classes" last month. They first did this by telling me I would finish summer classes at the language school early so we could all take a break earlier before the September public school classes started. I agreed and came on Saturday two times to finish earlier.
Then, the day before I was to get paid and before the end of the summer classes, the manager said the school wanted me to teach two 30 minute classes. I figured it wouldn't be that bad and I was expecting to get paid the full salary, so I agreed at that point. The next day, the manager was gone. She went off on vacation, and I asked about getting paid. This eventually led to me getting paid that day and getting unpaid vacation time until the public school classes. I am not sure how others view this, but I guess it's not bad compared to some university jobs where you sign 10 month contracts. Do you get paid for the 2 months between semesters? If not, then 2 weeks in my case is not worth complaining about. My salary is not as low as a university job, so even if a university teacher got paid it wouldn't go over the amount I could earn for those 2 months or even 1.5 months (if you want to count 2 weeks against me).
As it stands, the language school asked me if I would teach the classes as they were scheduled before the recent addition of a 5th day with only 2 classes (before they did this they asked if would be willing to teach just 1!!! Where is their logic?) I told them I am not agreeing to it until we talk with the public school about it (Monday, which confused them because they didn't understand why I was willing to talk to them about resolving this issue and not wanting to teach only 2 classes on Monday. To them, it is more of a hassle to argue for a reasonable schedule than just do what you are told. CONFORM!!!).
Anyway, I know this means they will have more reason to nail me with as many classes as they can, but I am sick and tired of them tweaking things around. I want them to agree on one reasonable schedule and leave it that way for most of the semester.
Last edited by askiptochina on Sat Sep 17, 2011 4:50 am; edited 1 time in total |
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askiptochina
Joined: 26 Feb 2010 Posts: 488 Location: Beijing
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Posted: Sat Sep 17, 2011 4:36 am Post subject: |
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Quote: |
However, all this "travel/wait" time is a chip you can use when negotiating next years contract. |
No, I am not waiting 12 months (in theory) to change a schedule. I would never recommend a teacher do this. I have taught 8 years in Asia, and when things like this come up, either they change the schedule or I leave and find a new school.
Quote: |
Use Excel to put together a complete calendar of all the wasted unpaid time that your current schedule is costing you. |
I already did. This week would come to 505 minutes of wasted time. I told them we could use it better than having me wait for a bus 4 times for 80 minutes a day.
Quote: |
Does your school have dormitories? Can you get a room so that you can at least relax during this downtime? |
They might have something for a few students, I think they did at the other location. However, now it's just a teacher's room which has no cubicle environment or "My space" feeling. It's just a big room with computers near the walls circling around and teachers constantly talk while students come in and out. When they schedule 4 days, I use the day off as a trade off and simply pay the bus fare to go home and relax for 1 hour before heading back. Now that they want 5 days, things need to change. |
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choudoufu

Joined: 25 May 2010 Posts: 3325 Location: Mao-berry, PRC
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Posted: Sat Sep 17, 2011 5:55 am Post subject: |
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askiptochina wrote: |
...They told me they signed a 1 year lease with the landlord and couldn't change..... |
they mean it's too much trouble to think about considering maybe
asking about changing this, so shut up already.
if they absolutely refuse to change the schedule, look into apartments
near the school. if they break the lease, what's the penalty?
one month's rent? if that's the case, would it be worth offering to
go fitty-fitty on the penalty? would it be worth it to save yourself
the aggravation of commuting and all those lost hours? |
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askiptochina
Joined: 26 Feb 2010 Posts: 488 Location: Beijing
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Posted: Sat Sep 17, 2011 7:41 am Post subject: |
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That is a viable solution, and if I were in the center of Beijing I would jump on that idea.
However, I am in a good location now. Stores and restaurants are relatively closer here than to the school. At the school, there is definitely nothing immediately within close proximity. I go to one small convenience store for water and peanuts. That's about it.
To give you some background, I am in a rural district 1.5 hours from the center of Beijing. The new location for high school students is actually at the district's (old) university. College students no longer go there. Maybe they have moved to a new location as well. At the old location I could walk 15 minutes and come back for lunch. I would buy stuff on the streets or at stores on the way home. Now, I wait for a bus, get off near a store, and then walk home. At least I have an apartment now. If I moved to a new location, then I would still have to go into the center of Beijing to get food (or stock up I guess which just makes me fatter). This is why the students all leave on bicycles, they also go home.
Another thing to realize is that if I did move closer, then the school would see no problem scheduling 5 days, I have them thinking now about 4 days like I taught in April, May, and June (and that was where the school was closer). If there is a holiday, exams, or school event, my classes get canceled and I don't have to teach that day. This means only 3 days for that week. I'll ping pong back and forth happily in that case. It's just when 5 days are scheduled that it no longer becomes a benefit.
So, moving is the final straw if they won't bend Monday, I'll just say, "Move me closer to the school then." I guess it wouldn't be much of a loss for the language school to break the lease agreement, considering the cost of finding another teacher and doing all the visa paperwork. I would just pay for the moving costs. If only there was stuff to do near the new location, unfortunately there isn't. |
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Ariadne
Joined: 16 Jul 2004 Posts: 960
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Posted: Sat Sep 17, 2011 1:27 pm Post subject: |
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Is there any way you could be hired by the high school directly, instead of being employed by the language school? You might want to check into that for future reference.
. |
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askiptochina
Joined: 26 Feb 2010 Posts: 488 Location: Beijing
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Posted: Sat Sep 17, 2011 3:07 pm Post subject: |
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Quote: |
Is there any way you could be hired by the high school directly, instead of being employed by the language school? |
Yes, I have already thought of that. My Monday plan is not only to talk with the school, but I will be presenting my contract to them. I will be telling the public school (if they care, I have to test this first) that the manager went on vacation without paying me on August 18th. The language school said to come back on the 25th when the manager would return. I then asked to talk to the owner of the language school to my co-teacher. She recorded some number but contacted the manager instead.
Then, they messaged each other for a while, during a summer class. She left the room, I am assuming to talk on the phone, and returned telling me I could get paid on August 22nd. I said I still needed to talk with the owner. Then, I went home (my co-teacher had a surprised look). I get home, and the manager then messaged me to get my pay at 3pm (that day) on the 18th (which was the end of a month's work). For 3 months, I had no problems, but from the 4th month, I have had problems.
Then I got home, and I received a message from the manager that I didn't have to teach extra classes (only 3 students signed up). However, I wouldn't be paid from the 19th to the 31st. I had no problem with that and understood the reasoning.
BLOOD IS THICKER THAN FOREIGN ENGLISH
I don't know how much I can control things. I had a similar problem in Korea. I signed a contract after agreeing to terms not in the contract with a manager. Manager 1. She and I agreed on things, but it couldn't be written in the contract. For example, I wanted to get paid more, so she set it up for me to get paid for housing and give me a place to stay. My first pay had to come from them and the public school. After that, she worked it out so I would only get paid from the school. Then, she left. Two part-time managers replaced her and upheld the agreement. However, they also left. The 4th manager and I had a disagreement, and that's where I decided to leave Korea. I didn't want to challenge the 4th manager because I truly felt they wouldn't have cared. They would have just said bye to me and hired a new teacher.
In this case, I still have to feel the situation. 10th grade is the start of high school for Chinese students, and we have new Chinese teachers. I don't know how they will react. Will they sympathize with me or maintain a connection with the language school? Monday will be the first time we all meet (supposedly, I don't think the 11th grade head English teacher will be present even though the language school said).
You have to hold on to these "wrongs" and play them at the right time. Right now I have the language school not paying me with the manager leaving, and then telling the school to schedule stupid hours for me. I am anxious to see what other crap they have to pull. |
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Opiate
Joined: 10 Aug 2011 Posts: 630 Location: Qingdao
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Posted: Sat Sep 17, 2011 3:33 pm Post subject: |
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If it's not in the contract, it has no meaning. |
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askiptochina
Joined: 26 Feb 2010 Posts: 488 Location: Beijing
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Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2011 12:02 am Post subject: |
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Opiate wrote: |
If it's not in the contract, it has no meaning. |
Which side of the coin are you applying this to? Are you saying because a schedule is not in the contract, the school can schedule whatever they want, or are you saying that if a schedule is not in the contract I have every right to not accept it?
I guess there are limits to both ways of thinking, and that's why I don't worry about having them include it in the contract. But for me, it can have meaning if it is not in the contract. Outside arrangements can be made if both sides mutually agree to them. That's the bandaid/glue that holds the default terms and conditions outlined in the contract. |
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Opiate
Joined: 10 Aug 2011 Posts: 630 Location: Qingdao
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Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2011 12:39 am Post subject: |
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askiptochina wrote: |
Opiate wrote: |
If it's not in the contract, it has no meaning. |
Which side of the coin are you applying this to? Are you saying because a schedule is not in the contract, the school can schedule whatever they want, or are you saying that if a schedule is not in the contract I have every right to not accept it?
I guess there are limits to both ways of thinking, and that's why I don't worry about having them include it in the contract. But for me, it can have meaning if it is not in the contract. Outside arrangements can be made if both sides mutually agree to them. That's the bandaid/glue that holds the default terms and conditions outlined in the contract. |
Actually I was talking about the money. You verbally made an agreement with a manager but it was never in the contract...hence no meaning. But...I read too fast and only now noticed this was your previous gig in Korea.
As to the hours...yeah....they can schedule pretty much whenever they want unless there is something about it in your contract so I guess what I said earlier still applies.
They can schedule whenever they see fit so long as it is under your maximum hours. After that you have the right to refuse. Nothing wrong with simply talking with folks though, not all will give you a hard time and maybe you guys can work out some kind of compromise. Just do not believe empty promises. Get everything in writing even if it is an email. If you meet with somebody and verbally come to an understanding or agreement...immediately go home and write an email to the same person(people) confirming what was said and what was agreed upon. Be sure they reply to the message if you can so they can never say they did not see it.
Good luck....your schedule right now could use some help. |
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askiptochina
Joined: 26 Feb 2010 Posts: 488 Location: Beijing
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Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 3:17 pm Post subject: |
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Quote: |
They can schedule whenever they see fit so long as it is under your maximum hours. |
Regardless of the legal stance on this, I will look at the range of hours I am supposed to be available and then compare that to my actual teaching hours. For example, last year, I had a job where I walked to school or it was right next door. In that case, I was scheduled 2 morning classes with Korean high school students (which were actually more like 3 or 4 because the students had 2 hours with me instead of 40-50 minutes), and then I finished the rest after 3pm when students finished school. The actual time I felt I lost was nothing compared to what my schedule is now. No buses, no waiting between classes, and even then there was a computer room full of computers students used to release themselves after 2 hours of study sessions. Sometimes, I would just stay there. The school environment there was awesome. Too bad the owner later wanted me to teach 35 class hours/week for only 5,000/month
I went to school today thinking I would talk with one of the head English teachers about the 2 Monday classes. Instead, the manager of the language school was at the public school and wanted to make sure everything was straightened out. The head English teacher finally came into the teachers' room and looked like he didn't care. He just told her that they would have to cancel the Monday classes for the time being and left. So, I told her that as long as they kept that arrangement, then I would accept 4 days of mediocre scheduling for 1 day off a week (in addition to my 2 weekend days, 3 total).
Then, she tried to get me to buy a meal ticket for the cafeteria. I think she feels I cheated the system somehow by getting these classes canceled, so now she wants me to pay for it. Before, it was offered as, "Oh, you can just eat in the cafeteria." Great, now I have to pay for bus fare and school food? How generous. No thanks, I will go home, relax, reset my mind before any afternoon classes (even if it's just one).
In China, you deal with 2 kinds of people. One will do absolutely nothing. they won't tell you the price of something, they won't move on the bus so you can scoot around, or they won't stand behind you when you are in line at a store (they just walk right to the counter as if you and the rest of the people behind you are all ghosts). Then you have those who take every opportunity to force some "business transaction" on you when you were never even seeking it (get off a bus and guys are right there trying to escort you to their taxis, walk by an area in a store and be ushered in (surprise attack), or they say "Let me walk you here so you can buy____". In this case it was a meal card. |
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choudoufu

Joined: 25 May 2010 Posts: 3325 Location: Mao-berry, PRC
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Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 11:13 pm Post subject: |
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how do you get free food from "Oh, you can just eat in the cafeteria?"
did she actually say meals were included, or was that her response
to you mentioning there was nothing within reasonable walking
distance from the school? |
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