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wulfrun
Joined: 12 May 2008
Posts: 167
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 Posted: Thu Sep 15, 2011 11:42 pm Post subject: EF Director of Studies jobs - thoughts? |
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| have seen ads for EF DoS jobs in the big cities, pay about 18k. anyone any thoughts on the conditions, job progression, or anything else? i know EF branches sometimes get a reputation as cynical chop-shops, but i'm thinking that it wouldn't be too bad to be the person with the responsibility of making things work better, and in a big organisation with good resources. any and all thoughts very welcome. |
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xjgirl
Joined: 02 Feb 2010
Posts: 242
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| Posted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 1:21 am Post subject: |
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| i'd say it's definitely one to avoid, unless u like screwing over other laowai |
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The Great Wall of Whiner
Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Posts: 4946
Location: Blabbing
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| Posted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 1:44 am Post subject: |
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I was offered such a position a few years back; but I personally didn't feel it was worth it after going over the pros and cons. Here they are, you can make up your own mind; everyone is different. One person's con is another person's pro.
From my own point of view
Pros:
- Looks decent enough on a resume, mostly back at home mind you.
- Room for professional and personal development; they like to fill up head office jobs with former DOS's.
- Room for advancement
- Get to meet a lot of people.
- Opportunity for extra money (if you know Chinese culture and speak Chinese well enough).
- You are more than a simple "laowai".
- Chance to travel free around China on conferences
- Half-decent salary
Cons:
- Housing is not provided
- No matter how nice and kind you are, as xjgirl mentioned, you will be stepping on fellow teachers' toes; Some teachers have been there for awhile and they were passed up for you, an outsider, to lead them. Could be some envy/anger directed at you. I have worked for EF and the DOS's almost always had issues with other teachers and it led to a lower quality in workplace comfort.
- The salary and benefits are about the same as I make now so hardly worthwhile to make the jump.
- More likely to be called in on your day off to worth for hungover, er.. I mean.. ill teachers.
- Bigger cities are more expensive than smaller cities (generally).
- The job I had at the time was fine enough (if it 'aint broke, dont fix it).
- Wife was pregnant; moving would be a hassle.
- They asked me to go all the way home then all the way back to China again at my own expense just for the visa. That's a big expense! |
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7969
Joined: 26 Mar 2003
Posts: 5782
Location: Coastal Guangdong
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| Posted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 2:05 am Post subject: Re: EF Director of Studies jobs - thoughts? |
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| xjgirl wrote: |
| i'd say it's definitely one to avoid, unless u like screwing over other laowai |
Unfortunately there are too many people in positions of authority today who shouldn't be. They have absolutely no training in management and/or have 0 leadership skills. These are the people who are more likely to screw subordinates over because they go on a power trip and they have no idea what they're doing.
Those who do have some formal leadership training/ability are more likely to be able to deal with personnel issues in a fair and equitable manner on a consistent basis. Still, no matter how good you are you'll be perceived (rightly or wrongly) as stepping on someone's toes from time to time. That's the nature of business.
| wulfrun wrote: |
| have seen ads for EF DoS jobs in the big cities, pay about 18k. anyone any thoughts on the conditions, job progression, or anything else? i know EF branches sometimes get a reputation as cynical chop-shops, but i'm thinking that it wouldn't be too bad to be the person with the responsibility of making things work better, and in a big organisation with good resources. any and all thoughts very welcome. |
As many people on this forum are fond of saying every EF franchise is run differently and the atmosphere and experiences at one of them won't reflect the same at another franchise. If you're organized, have decent inter-personal/communication skills and can motivate people to work together as a team, then I say go for it. Decide on which franchise you're interested in, check it out, then make your decision. |
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igorG
Joined: 10 Aug 2010
Posts: 1473
Location: asia
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| Posted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 3:28 am Post subject: Re: EF Director of Studies jobs - thoughts? |
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First of all, i've got no EF experience. I am here, because the EF topic seems to be rather popular on boards and especially because of the above rosy post.
| 7969 wrote: |
| xjgirl wrote: |
| i'd say it's definitely one to avoid, unless u like screwing over other laowai |
Unfortunately there are too many people in positions of authority today who shouldn't be. They have absolutely no training in management and/or have 0 leadership skills. These are the people who are more likely to screw subordinates over because they go on a power trip and they have no idea what they're doing.
Those who do have some formal leadership training/ability are more likely to be able to deal with personnel issues in a fair and equitable manner on a consistent basis. Still, no matter how good you are you'll be perceived (rightly or wrongly) as stepping on someone's toes from time to time. That's the nature of business. |
I suppose this company provides the hired EF DoSs with some sort of a training. Those trainings probably prepare the individuals for the positions of authority. Therefore, they get the training in management and then they acquire some leadership skills. Screwing subordinates over is often required from leaders on mainland China and EF DoSs are considered for some leaders too. Now, i can't imagine well enough how the EF employers deal with their DoSs, but we may safely assume that the higher salary offered and isolation are two reasons why "a screwing" may take place.
Stepping on someone's toes is one thing and managing him/her another as well as is dealing with personnel issues vs professional ones. We shouldn't mix it up, should we? As consistent as one foreign professional can be, s/he will probably not be able to cope with the local demands for "flexibility". Forgive me if i am wrong but this company is a lot about money and franchisees have their great financial obligations, and so it's not about what's right or wrong but what makes us money or not. In any case, how many local business people have you seen "consistent". When they smell opportunities to make more money, they so quickly change. Regarding the leadership, the bottom line here is that with great financial obligations and changes of local employers attitudes, one foreign professional, the DoS, may have a pretty tough time. Dealing with other dozen foreign pros in the teachers office may be an impossible task.
As for "the nature of business", from my experience, business ethics are much different here than in our homelands. Then, the nature of local education is yet another issue as i have seen the local teaching techniques shockingly different. Here, we can only assume Chinese EF subscribers balance the local educational practices with western ones and "the nature of business" well enough to get the product out.
Finally, if the previous poster has ever worked for this company, perhaps, s/he will reason how s/he has done it all. |
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wulfrun
Joined: 12 May 2008
Posts: 167
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vikeologist
Joined: 07 Sep 2009
Posts: 600
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| Posted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 10:12 pm Post subject: |
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I've worked for EF. The problem with a DOS position is that you have to follow the instructions of the owner of the school (as most EFs are fanchises). The owners want to make as much money as possible. Of course, happy teachers + managle workload + good quality lessons = happy customers, and that's what happened at the EF I worked at, but I think that being an EF DOS and creating a good environement is quite tough.
The EF resources are not great, and are more of a hinderance than anything, since you have to use the garbage textbooks and resources they provide. If you want to provide good off-job training, you'd be better off throwing the Head Office stuff straight in the bin.
I'm not saying that EF DOS positions are bad jobs. I'm merely casting doubt on your premise that you would have authority or high quality resources. Unfortunately, all you will have is you and your ability. |
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wulfrun
Joined: 12 May 2008
Posts: 167
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| Posted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 11:19 pm Post subject: |
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| I'm not saying that EF DOS positions are bad jobs. I'm merely casting doubt on your premise that you would have authority or high quality resources. Unfortunately, all you will have is you and your ability. |
thanks, useful to hear. is the 'iLab' material not really worth much then? i haven't worked directly with blended learning programs, but i usually think that it's going to be a growth area, online self-study followed by interactive production in the classroom.
http://study.englishfirst.com/Home/Methodology#2 |
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Sinobear
Joined: 24 Aug 2004
Posts: 1269
Location: Purgatory
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| Posted: Sat Sep 17, 2011 1:07 am Post subject: |
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I was offered a DOS position with EF. They advertised 15K/mo with the apartment included. Well guess what? The apartment was part of the salary as was the visa fees, medical check, return airfare, insurance and other "benefits". After much prodding, the Shanghai HR said that my net income would be 9K/mo. Not much better than just being a normal college teacher with a lot more hours and responsibility thrown in.
Ask questions and keep asking questions until you get the answers that you want from them. |
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vikeologist
Joined: 07 Sep 2009
Posts: 600
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| Posted: Sat Sep 17, 2011 11:13 am Post subject: |
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| wulfrun wrote: |
| Quote: |
| I'm not saying that EF DOS positions are bad jobs. I'm merely casting doubt on your premise that you would have authority or high quality resources. Unfortunately, all you will have is you and your ability. |
thanks, useful to hear. is the 'iLab' material not really worth much then? i haven't worked directly with blended learning programs, but i usually think that it's going to be a growth area, online self-study followed by interactive production in the classroom.
http://study.englishfirst.com/Home/Methodology#2 |
Oh well. It's over a year since I worked for EF, so things may have changed materials-wise. EF schools have lots of money, so equipment and resources could be top notch now. However, i would guess that the perception of quality education via their marketing will always have precedence over the actual quality.
But, I have to admit, all my EF opinions could be out of date. |
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askiptochina
Joined: 26 Feb 2010
Posts: 488
Location: Beijing
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| Posted: Sat Sep 17, 2011 11:29 am Post subject: |
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| Room for advancement |
Where can you advance to? ("Hey baby, I was DoS at EF back in China.")
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| Half-decent salary |
I must be missing a "0" somewhere. I don't see many job offers better than 10-12,000. If it is a director position, ok, I can see how it would go up. You say "half-decent"? What is decent? 36,000? I never saw an offer remotely close to that.
| Quote: |
| The salary and benefits are about the same as I make now so hardly worthwhile to make the jump. |
You make 18,000 now? Doing what? And to whom? |
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wulfrun
Joined: 12 May 2008
Posts: 167
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| Posted: Sat Sep 17, 2011 11:31 am Post subject: |
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| thanks sinobear and vikeologist. and i just heard via pm a pretty damning appraisal from a guy who was EF DoS in a big city. does not sound promising... |
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wulfrun
Joined: 12 May 2008
Posts: 167
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| Posted: Sat Sep 17, 2011 11:34 am Post subject: |
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| i wonder what good DoS positions there are available in China, if any. |
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The Great Wall of Whiner
Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Posts: 4946
Location: Blabbing
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| Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:22 am Post subject: |
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@askiptochina:
Advance to Boardwalk?
I mean like in head office, if you want to get into office work and away from the classroom.
Half-decent is pretty much anything over 10k I reckon.
I teach in a private school, but I work my butt off for it--wife and daughters would have it no other way. |
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askiptochina
Joined: 26 Feb 2010
Posts: 488
Location: Beijing
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| Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 4:28 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| Half-decent is pretty much anything over 10k I reckon. |
A language mill slave can earn 10-12,000. I would expect a lot more for a DoS position. |
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