Job Discussion Forums

[demitrescou]

I'm wondering if those with experience in China can shed some light on whether it is realistic/feasible to work a university job and supplement the low income they offer with additional part time work at an institute. I'm not seeing much in terms of part time jobs on the job boards but I'm guessing on the ground it might well be a different story.

The university jobs are around 16hrs p/wk so I was hoping I could find another 10 outside of this. What remuneration could one expect for a 10hr gig (just ball park figures are fine).

I'd rather go with the uni jobs than the mills but I don't want to get stuck doing just 16hrs a week and going home with 6000 RMB. Got debts to pay.

Before anyone says I should go with Korea for $, I've been trying. Despite experience there the market is a mess right now. Certainly won't be getting a uni gig there any time soon.

[7969]

Talk to your students. Some of them will know where the local language schools are and you can go there and try secure some part time work. If your students are English majors they will definitely know where some part time work can be found. At our university we don't even have to go looking for these jobs, they usually come looking for us.

And even though it may say in your contract that outside work is prohibited (some contracts say outside work is permitted as long you assume responsibility for anything that happens at that outside job), if you let your FAO know you want to do some part time work they usually won't object. Even if they do object most people do the work anyway just keep that to yourself. Our FAO even passes part time jobs on to us from time to time.

[Lobster]

You should be able to pick up extra hours once you scope out the surroundings. Just make sure that your contract allows you to moonlight. You don't want to get into a situation where you're sneaking around behind the uni's back to work or getting yourself into scheduling conflicts.

RED

[dean_a_jones]

Yeah, its possible, and something many teachers do. You need to be careful about your university (they may not want you to work outside) but as long as you don't let additional hours conflict with your main job, then it should not be a problem.

Salary varies, I know people who have earned as much as 200 or 250 an hour teaching individuals or small groups of businessmen through training schools. The usual pay for regular classes at training schools is 100-150/hour.

Don't forget there are loads of other freelance pieces of work available, especially if you network and keep an eye out for them. These include private tutoring, training, recruitment etc.

You are much better off finding this on the ground, and assuming you live in a relatively large place, there should be plenty of options available.

[demitrescou]

Thanks for the feedback guys. Much appreciated.

Based on the above I think I was being a bit naive. I thought I could bring in another 3,000 RMB for a 10hr part-time gig, but if it's 100-150 p/hr then I could only expect 1000-1500 RMB for such additional hours. This would still only mean a total of around the 8,000 RMB mark. �800 for 26hrs! I was saving more than that total in Europe for less hours!

If a 20-25hr full time gig at a mill is paying around 10,000 RMB then shouldn't a 10hr part-time gig be able to fetch you 3,000 RMB (at least)? That's the way I was looking at it anyway.

Well, thanks for the input guys. I guess its back to the Korean job board.

[Guerciotti]

[Shroob]

Also worth factoring in is the 'prep' time. A friend who's accepted a job at a language mill is expected to plan all of their lessons. Now, I'm not against planning to deliver a good lesson, but I have friends working at uni who only plan 1-4 lessons a week. This is worth thinking about, especially if you're new to TEFL (like me), as planning can take a long time.

Also, does the wage at the language mill include accommodation? Utilities? Shared housing? Wages are important, but there are other factors to consider.

[Opiate]

There is a lot of money to be made here if you are willing to hustle and meet people. If you can speak Chinese your chances improve dramatically. If you find a local gf or wife who knows whats what....you'll be (relatively) golden.

Also, don't be shy or greedy. Make deals with locals. If they find you work, you cut them in for a piece for a few months. It's a great way to get introduced to schools you never knew existed and once in the door you cultivate your own relationships. Locals can go to mills and meet the folks who recruit new students very easily. A few well placed words and a promise of cash if they get YOU students does wonders. If you can weasel your way into a relationship with whoever sets up the one on one lessons for the larger mills in your area you'll be set. Spend money to make money.

Do not expect things to happen for you when you are fresh off the boat though. Things take time. Also, do not be lured into thinking that just because you can make so much more per hour privately or moonlighting that you no longer need that crappy Uni gig. Those jobs are great for supplying a stable (though less than impressive) income. If you can find a mill that will offer a full time gig @20 hours a week or less, take that instead of a Uni gig since the pay will be roughly double. Just be very careful with that, mills like to give FT's retarded schedules that can make finding other work difficult. And you lose your summer off. Choose carefully, do not rush into anything. Avoid schools like WEB (just an example) who want a ton of office hours...the hours you are not working for your mill should be money making hours elsewhere, not sitting around with thumb up ass.

One more thing to keep in mind about Unis vs mills. Uni's pay you for holidays and most pay for summer break. Over the course of a year this adds up to a not so insignificant chunk of change. If you want to bust your balls, during the summer you can work like a slave (and build more relationships) and really make money while getting paid by your Uni as well.

Just avoid the mills that really want you to work. They rarely pay more (often less) but eat valuable time. If they want lesson plans either walk away if you think they are serious, ignore the request, or take your manager out to dinner and explain your feelings about paperwork if it's a job that you really want. Take only oral English classes or classes you can turn into oral English classes. After a year or so you should have a decent bag of tricks packed with topics and articles and whatever so you'll rarely need to worry about what to do in any class.


...uh...but anyway....dean_a_jones was right. Expect 100-150 an hour to start.

Sorry for that wall of text. Am sick today and have nothing to do.

[demitrescou]

That's fine Opiate, very informative. Thanks everyone for the helpful info. Yea that figure I gave of 3000 RMB for a 10hr gig was nonsense. I didn't calculate it, just through a random figure out there.

[roadwalker]

[Non Sequitur]

The difficulty in my exp of combining a uni gig with additional outside work during the semester, is to get the clear time to enable commuting off to the mill or other class.
Also bear in mind that mills are busiest at weekends, so to maximise income in that area means you will be working 7 days.
If you sign on for another year and can base yourself in your uni apartment then fulltime mill work nearby for 6-8 weeks could be an earner for you.
Better still if your uni pay continues!

[The Great Wall of Whiner]

Why do you have to work for a university? Is this the only gig you will do?

It's like an actor refusing TV sitcoms, commercials, voice overs for animations, talk shows, opera, a dramatic play in a theater... "No baby, this guy ONLY does motion pictures!" he says while throwing his posh scarf over his shoulder, puts his nose into the air, and steps into his limo.

There are jobs well over 12k a month here in China. If you have debts you have to pay off, pull your socks up and WORK. Debts can't be that bad if you refuse to work anything but Uni.

Some are so determined to work for universities that they are willing to work for 3k a month, 16 hrs. a week, and get to live in the prison called "on-site campus housing" with a curfew and restrictions similar to those I give my 13 year-old daughter!

What the heck is the attraction?

[dean_a_jones]

I think the attraction is that if you land the right package (by doing decent research), you can be living in a comfortable city, with a decent apartment, decent base pay and plenty of free hours that you can control and bulk up with additional work.

Yeah you can earn 12,000/month, but when you find you are working 6 days a week and getting that 11pm call when you are out with friends saying 'oh, can you come in tomorrow at 8am' for some it's not worth it. A uni job lets you settle in slowly and pick-up extra work when you are ready to do so. When you get a decent apartment thrown in as well, then the deal looks even better.

The work is often less demanding (though may involve more planning), and the expectations are also lower as a result, which means less pressure at first. Perks like Winter/Summer holidays (when paid) also mean you can work like a dog for privates then (if you choose) and earn some really decent cash to bulk up your savings.

You are right inasmuch as taking a crappy contract with poor living conditions because you want a uni gig is not so smart (especially if you are thinking 'it is a university, it is more prestigious'). But if you aim is for what I have listed above, then there are plenty of good uni gigs out there which will leave you with a lot of potential to bulk up the somewhat smaller pay with some part-time work on your terms.

[7969]

[dakelei]

I generally stay out of these "discussions" but this time I'll dive in. GWOW's postings constantly rail against those FT's who dare to consider anything other than money when deciding where to work. As the parent of a 13 y/o daughter I can certainly understand why money is important to him. It is not, however, the most important factor for a lot of other FT's here. (I personally question the sanity of any Westerner who would choose to raise a child here rather than home but that's another issue altogether. I've more than once likened it to borderline child abuse.) I've spent more than 8 years in China and have worked at every sort of "school" there is and at every level as well. I taught KG, primary school, both levels of "middle school," adults at "training centers" and now at a university. I even did a disastrous stint at an "international school" owned and operated by Koreans. My current uni job is, by far, the best job I've ever had. It is NOT the highest-paying, mind you. Everything 7969 said is true. I have no curfew where I am and have stumbled in at dawn a few times. (Not proud of that, of course, but I have.)I can do pretty much whatever I want and am never questioned about it. GWOW's "prison" comparison is silly and simply not true. I have a huge, furnished 3 BR apartment, rent free, that I share with a Chinese GF and 3 cats. I'm one of the few FT's here who is actually licensed and qualified to teach school at home (USA) and did so, at the high school level, for 15 years. I didn't come here to escape a bad economy at home or because I was "stuck" doing grunt work I hated. I came here because I really wanted to TEACH and here at my uni I can actually do that. THAT is the "attraction." I'm not particularly crazy about China. A lot of stuff here drives me crazy. However, I do like my job. If money is your top motivator my advice is to stay out of ESL teaching in China completely. If that isn't possible do the "training center" grind. You'll make more money but the work, by and large, sucks. Anyone here for any length of time knows this.