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Trebek
Joined: 30 Oct 2003
Posts: 401
Location: China
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 Posted: Wed May 12, 2004 4:56 pm Post subject: China vs Vietnam vs Thailand |
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Hi all,
I'm trying to figure out which country I want to teach in. A stress-free life and a positive teaching experience in a safe environment are what I am seeking (I'll be bringing my 13 year old son with me). Money counts, but enough to live on is that is required. My qualifications are excellent.
Cheers,
Trebek |
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Guest
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| Posted: Wed May 12, 2004 8:43 pm Post subject: |
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I found Vietnam a difficult place to get around due to the constant heat and motor bikes etc.
Also in Vietnam you do not get your Air ticket refunded, you do not get accommodation provided etc. I think it would be more difficult for your Son there also. I would rule out Vietnam if I were you.
I do not know about Thailand, but I have visited it several times and I really love it there.
China may be the best place for you to bring your Son. I live on campus in a Boarding School for rich kids - there are about 1,800 children living here and I am sure your Son would enjoy going to School somewhere like this. He would pick up Chinese fairly quickly also.
If I were you, I would look around for a smaller City like this one rather than tackling Shanghai or Beijing.
Best of luck |
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Talkdoc
Joined: 03 Mar 2004
Posts: 696
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| Posted: Wed May 12, 2004 11:00 pm Post subject: Re: China vs Vietnam vs Thailand |
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Last edited by Talkdoc on Wed May 17, 2006 5:55 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Ludwig
Joined: 26 Apr 2004
Posts: 1096
Location: 22� 20' N, 114� 11' E
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| Posted: Thu May 13, 2004 3:59 am Post subject: Re: China vs Vietnam vs Thailand |
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| Talkdoc wrote: |
| I would be thinking more along the lines of larger, international cities in China such as Beijing, Shanghai and Hong Kong. The problem, however, is that there is very little adjustment in salaries across provinces. |
It is not clear what you could hope to achieve by comparing Beijing and Shanghai to Hong Kong; nor is it at all clear what you mean by your remark that there is "very little adjustment in salaries across provinces".
I worked as an English teacher at an English department at a university on the mainland and received 7,500 RMB a month. I hold an identical position (in terms of classroom responsibilities) at a university here and I receive $30,000. I also benefit from a tenfold increase in paid holiday and a partial pension and savings plan. When I was prepared to work harder and longer and was willing to be a NET I commanded a higher monthly income as a result of monthly allowances totalling some $13,000. This was to cover housing and relocation costs. Is this what you mean your putative situation in which there is "very little adjustment in salaries across provinces"?
| Talkdoc wrote: |
| The culture of teaching English in Asian countries has developed around the predominance of young people in their twenties and early thirties. |
If true, I for one would cite this as a reason for celebration.
| Talkdoc wrote: |
| The mindset of those who provide English as a second language, in Asia, (private English language schools and university foreign affair [sic] departments) is fixated around dealing with young adults with no or very little experience and minimal qualifications (in many cases, no more than a TEFL certificate and a high school diploma). |
At the department in which I work there are many "young adults" though none could in any general sense be described as having "no or very little experience and minimal qualifications". I am most likely the least well-qualified in my department and I possess a BA (Hons) in Language Studies and Linguistics (3 years, full-time, on campus study); a MA in Language Acquisition (1 year, full-time, on campus study); PGDE (2 years, part-time study, Chinese University of HK); CELTA (British Council, HK); YL Extension to CELTA (British Council, HK). I am also a doctorate candidate and may pursue a PGDELE (English Language Education) in the near future (funded at least in part, I should add, by my employer).
Perhaps you could enlighten the forum as to what would, in your view, constitute something above "minimal qualifications"?
| Talkdoc wrote: |
| As a rule, your excellent qualifications will not command a greater salary and, more likely than not, you will be dealt with and responded to as if you are a 24 year-old kid with previous experience in little more than beer-guzzling. |
I will not respond to the latter segment of your above statement. I will, however, ask by what measure - indeed, by what "rule" - "excellent qualifications will not command a greater salary".
It seems fairly obvious to me - as even a cursory glance through, for example, the South China Morning Post evinces - that "excellent qualifications" do indeed command "a greater salary". Let me quote however, as way of example, from the pay scale at my establishment. Instructor grade 2 receives between $21,548 and $27,408 whilst instructor grade 1 receives between $28,700 and $45,375.
The two are separated through nothing other than qualifications and (post-qualification) experience. |
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Talkdoc
Joined: 03 Mar 2004
Posts: 696
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| Posted: Thu May 13, 2004 5:19 am Post subject: |
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Last edited by Talkdoc on Wed May 17, 2006 5:56 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Lee_Odden
Joined: 22 Apr 2004
Posts: 172
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| Posted: Thu May 13, 2004 5:52 am Post subject: |
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Ludwig - You have completely missed the point here or are not interested in getting it because you were antagonized by the comment Talkdoc made about beer guzzling 24 year olds (which, for my school anyway in Anhui Province, is pretty damn accurate. Also, out of 18 ESL teachers here, 1 has a master's degree, 2 have BAs and the rest have TEFL certificates).
A woman is talking about coming to Asia with a 13 year-old son for a "stress-free" life and a "positive teaching experience" as an ESL teacher. That is really what Talkdoc was really addressing himself to; not salary differentials.
I have to ask you the same question - your wonderful experience notwithstanding - "Have you been reading the advertisements and posts on this website."
I think not.
Jeez Louise. |
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Roger
Joined: 19 Jan 2003
Posts: 9138
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| Posted: Thu May 13, 2004 9:39 am Post subject: |
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I have advised many people in a similar position to seriously think first of all the INTERESTS OF THEIR KID(s) before committing to travel abroad.
A 13-year old is in a sensitive age and needs stability in his life; his friends and relatives cannot be replaced. Where would his mother be? SIngle parenting - quite a challenge!
Schooling for him? Home-schooling? So, you will be juggling three jobs, man: a fulltime professional job, housework and teaching your own kid...
The "welcome" many Chinese give a human being from outside China is not always good for that person's morale; to be identified as a freak creature can be quite unsettling even for grownups. It often is less bad for kids than for adults, though; but you mustn't take anything for granted. A 13-year old looks pretty "old" to a Chinese. |
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Trebek
Joined: 30 Oct 2003
Posts: 401
Location: China
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| Posted: Thu May 13, 2004 1:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Thanks for all the excellent advice folks. I guess I failed to mention one small detail. I am a single dad. I've been teaching in the American public school system for 7 years. Anything has got to be less stressful than this. |
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Trebek
Joined: 30 Oct 2003
Posts: 401
Location: China
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| Posted: Thu May 13, 2004 3:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Rickster wrote: |
China is the Middle Kingdom. It's a life-altering experience if you last more than a year.
[If you just want to make money and take pictures, go elsewhere. |
Gee thanks Rickster. I find advice like that vague yet inspiring! Money and photo-ops were clearly stated as my main goals...
Again, I appreciate the insight Doc, Ludwig, Rhonda, and Roger have given me. Thanks for taking the time to help a fellow teacher. |
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alleybcb
Joined: 13 May 2004
Posts: 6
Location: Datong, Shanxi PRC
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| Posted: Fri May 14, 2004 12:29 am Post subject: Re: China vs Vietnam vs Thailand |
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A stress-free life and a positive teaching experience in a safe environment are what I am seeking
Well, I would rule out many places for stress free and safe. You just don't find those things if you leave your home. In all honesty, don't think it's possible in China. |
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Ludwig
Joined: 26 Apr 2004
Posts: 1096
Location: 22� 20' N, 114� 11' E
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| Posted: Fri May 14, 2004 4:16 am Post subject: |
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| Talkdoc wrote: |
| Now that the parade is over [...] |
Well, I am not the one who claims to be a Harvard PhD, now, am I?
(By the way, who was your supervisor and who were the external examiners at your viva?) |
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goeastyoung(ish)man!
Joined: 09 Jun 2003
Posts: 139
Location: back in US
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| Posted: Fri May 14, 2004 5:16 am Post subject: I have a Bf D |
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I attended college. So, as an expert, I think it is important to know what causes you stress? Lack of teaching resources? Lack of information from the school administration/ Director of Studies? Lack of scheduling (or secret scheduling where you are told on a need-to-know basis, i.e., last minute basis)? Lack of toilet paper? My situation is pretty good when I compare it to many of the complaints in this forums archives. But I still experience stress occasionally, mainly based on daily life in China (it's a freak show, and I am the star.) I also get annoyed at being the last to know important things.
Compared to teaching in the US, I think you will find the level of respect for teachers given by students to be shockingly high. Paradoxically, you will feel pressure to entertain them and avoid such boring lessons as grammar and other "useless" trivialities. You will also feel pressure to befriend students, other teachers, strangers, strange people and everone else. Sometimes it's overwhelming. In the States, you are an insider, and have to deal with office politics; here, you are definitely an outsider and have to deal with the consequences of the insiders' office politics.
Good luck with whatever you decide. |
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Talkdoc
Joined: 03 Mar 2004
Posts: 696
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| Posted: Fri May 14, 2004 9:03 am Post subject: |
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Last edited by Talkdoc on Wed May 17, 2006 5:56 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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JordanClary
Joined: 28 Apr 2004
Posts: 8
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| Posted: Fri May 14, 2004 11:45 pm Post subject: |
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Trebek--I think it's great that you're taking your 13 year-old son with you to China (or elsewhere). Yes, it will be difficult but that's how we grow. I also have a 13 year-old son--he'll be staying with my husband for the first few months, but then they both plan to join me after the first of the year. Back when I was a single mom, I spent time in Mexico with my older son (now 23) and although he had a hard time of it while we were there, he now seems to pick up languages easily and loves to travel. You're giving your son a great gift and the two of you will likely bond even more as a result. Good luck!
Leslie |
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Trebek
Joined: 30 Oct 2003
Posts: 401
Location: China
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| Posted: Sun May 16, 2004 6:40 pm Post subject: Re: I have a Bf D |
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[quote="goeastyoung(ish)man!"]I attended college. So, as an expert, I think it is important to know what causes you stress?
Compared to teaching in the US, I think you will find the level of respect for teachers given by students to be shockingly high.
The level of respect teachers enjoy in Asian countries does appeal to me. What stresses me out the most is the amount of CYA "cover your ass" paperwork that increases every year. Apparently our nation has half the lawyers in the world and they are sueing school districts for every reason they can conjure up. I know teachers that will not fail a student because the paperwork and liability is just too much.
Does that give you an idea why I seek a job in Asia? |
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