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PAULH
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Posts: 4672
Location: Western Japan
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 Posted: Tue May 11, 2004 11:36 am Post subject: |
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| J-kun wrote: |
Paul, tonester and all of you who wrote about the qualities of a real teacher are absolutely correct. It takes a lot of effort and commitment to become a great one. Which is why I wondered how those who have made that effort feel about being lumped in the same general category as those haven't and don't intend to. |
J-Kun
Personally it doesnt bother me whether he is lumped in with being labelled a teacher with me or Tonester or Sherri. I was an an eikaiwa teacher myself once and while its all well and good for a year or two while you are on the teach and party circuit, its not the kind of thing that is sustainable for the long term.
I am where I want to be becuase I pulled my finger out and made the effort, they are where they want to be becuase they would rather party and chase women. and they learn to make do with what they have. Its not that I look down on them at all, as there are serious dedicated teachers among the NOVA and ECC crowd, as there are the bad apples.
I do get worried however, at the recent development where conversation schools are not sending such 'teachers' to work at universities and high schools and elementary schools becuase they are cheap to hire, working into real learning institutions, (not eikaiwas) where they are woefully unprepared, professionally out of their depth, and they run amok giving the rest of us in this area a bad name. |
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guest of Japan
Joined: 28 Feb 2003
Posts: 1601
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Tue May 11, 2004 12:05 pm Post subject: |
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| PAULH wrote: |
| I do get worried however, at the recent development where conversation schools are not sending such 'teachers' to work at universities and high schools and elementary schools becuase they are cheap to hire, working into real learning institutions, (not eikaiwas) where they are woefully unprepared, professionally out of their depth, and they run amok giving the rest of us in this area a bad name.. |
Could it be that the professionals have given themselves a bad name and that is why any old gaijin will do? Especially when he or she is much cheaper and more easily disposed of?
I don't actually believe this is the case, well at least not often. I've seen university teachers with MA's act just as dubiously as eikaiwa teachers.
Of course you are justified in your concern PaulH. As is said in pretty much every cop movie ever created, "The system stinks." |
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Tonester
Joined: 24 Mar 2004
Posts: 145
Location: Ojiya, Niigata Pref
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| Posted: Wed May 12, 2004 12:06 am Post subject: |
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Well, what would the westgate people be categorised as? They get dispatched to universities and do pretty much the same as an eikaiwaite. I've also heard that it's a pretty crap place to be employed by..........
Are those the people you're referring to, Paul? |
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PAULH
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Posts: 4672
Location: Western Japan
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| Posted: Wed May 12, 2004 12:30 am Post subject: |
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| Tonester wrote: |
Well, what would the westgate people be categorised as? They get dispatched to universities and do pretty much the same as an eikaiwaite. I've also heard that it's a pretty crap place to be employed by..........
Are those the people you're referring to, Paul? |
The westgate teachers, to my knowledge work ina type of eikaiwa lounge located on a university campus and are required to be on campus 8 hours a day. Their contract is only for 3 or 4 months and they have to wait for 2 months if they wish to extend or renew their contract, as there are no classes during school vacations. they are paid an eikaiwa salary for working a 40-hour week and dont enjoy the same privileges as regular part time or full time college teachers employed by the university.
I have noticed the general union complain about westgate because essentially what it comes down to is MONEY. dispatch teachers are cheap to hire, it absolves the school of hassles to do with selection and hiring, taxation, contract renewals finding teachers etc. In a recent survey the average part time (japanese and foreign) teacher makes about two million yen a year in income, working at several places, and a dispatch teacher just being paid for 25 weeks of the year, for 10,000 yen a day, makes a fraction of what it costs to hire a full time or a part time university teacher, for teaching the same type of classes. At my university last year we had dispatch teachers (but they were required to have Masters degrees) who taught up 20 classes a week for 20,000 yen per class per month. The average part timer gets 25,000 yen or more per class.
Call it what you will, but there is a definite 'dumbing down' of university and tertiary education, where schools believe that a cheaper teacher hired through a dispatch company to do the same job as a qualified masters candidate with experience is value for money. IMO its the students who suffer, though in any profession, you will get MA-qualified teachers who are incompetent or lazy. Likewise you get lazy and incompetent doctors.
FWIW I recently learnt that many Japanese professors at university never actually take any teaching courses in order to become professors, but will simply have an academic degree in their discipline before being let loose on students. Many have the knowledge and intellect but simply dont have the teaching skills to teach their subject. the same can be said for some foreign university teachers, but when you are dealing with large classes like I do, and you have to do grading and tests, justify your grades etc, its not really something that a westgate or dispatch teacher with a BA should be doing, unless they have relevant experience. they may be cheaper to hire for the school, but not necessarily better for the students IMO. Obviously teaching at a conversation lounge on a university campus is is one thing, but being responsible for their university education, and grades is another. |
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lostinparis
Joined: 04 Feb 2004
Posts: 77
Location: within range of a flying baguette
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| Posted: Wed May 12, 2004 11:28 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
Well, what would the westgate people be categorised as? They get dispatched to universities and do pretty much the same as an eikaiwaite. I've also heard that it's a pretty crap place to be employed by..........
Are those the people you're referring to, Paul? |
I'm currently working with Westgate for their spring term (1st time) and thought I'd add my two yen to the discussion.
1st - Although it's only been about two weeks that I've been working with Westgate, my opinion is definitely not that it is "a crap place to be employed by." In fact, it's just the opposite: they have been very professional from the beginning, have delivered everything they promised in their contract, and they are stricter about who they employ than the average NOVA or ECC type school.
In order to even be considered for a position, Westgate teachers are required to have either a CELTA + 500 hours of teaching experience or a minimum of 1000 hours of teaching experience in lieu of a TEFL or CELTA certificate. Nearly all of the teachers I spoke to at my orientation last week had masters degrees, teaching credentials in their home country, or a TEFL or CELTA with 1 year + teaching experience in other countries. Definitely an interesting and committed bunch who enjoy teaching and are in it for the long haul - not your usual I-speak-English-and-have-a-pulse-give-me-a-job types.
2nd - Westgate teachers do not teach the same classes as university professors. Westgate offers 2 types of classes - extracurricular and accredited. Most are extracurricular, which means that university students pay extra money and spend their free time to take these classes, so it's a lot like the eikawa system, only the classes are held on campus and are therefore more convenient for the students.
| Quote: |
| but when you are dealing with large classes like I do, and you have to do grading and tests, justify your grades etc, its not really something that a westgate or dispatch teacher with a BA should be doing, unless they have relevant experience |
The accredited classes at Westgate are indeed for-credit classes that students get a grade in (I teach 3 currently). However, the classes are considered a conversation elective - something like the equivalent of a 2 unit pass/no pass conversation class in the states that you would take in addition to a regular course taught by a professor or university lecturer with a phD. (I don't give tests in my classes - grades are based entirely on attendance and participation). This is not so different from American universities, where conversation classes are taught by grad students in the department who may or may not have teaching experience. Most U.S. professors don't want to teach these types of low-level classes anyway, because they want to concentrate instead on more advanced and, hence, more interesting, classes. |
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PAULH
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Posts: 4672
Location: Western Japan
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| Posted: Wed May 12, 2004 1:38 pm Post subject: |
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| lostinparis wrote: |
[
The accredited classes at Westgate are indeed for-credit classes that students get a grade in (I teach 3 currently). However, the classes are considered a conversation elective - something like the equivalent of a 2 unit pass/no pass conversation class in the states that you would take in addition to a regular course taught by a professor or university lecturer with a phD. (I don't give tests in my classes - grades are based entirely on attendance and participation). This is not so different from American universities, where conversation classes are taught by grad students in the department who may or may not have teaching experience. Most U.S. professors don't want to teach these types of low-level classes anyway, because they want to concentrate instead on more advanced and, hence, more interesting, classes. |
Im not going to tell you how to teach your classes, but this is half the problem with the university system, where students can get a grade simply for showing up- even if they sleep their during the class. Being able to pass them just because they turn up for 2/3 of the lessons and then pass on a make-up if they fail a course is how things get done here and students squeak through without really being able to do or know anything. The big problem for me is big classes, where I have up to 10-12 ninety minute classes a week, 40 students in a class, and simply making a review test once a week means marking 300-400 tests, several times a term. Just passing them on attendance is easier on the teacher, but im sure on a westgate salary you are not inclined to spend all your time doing marking assessment and test preparation.
I hate doing it (marking) but I feel it should be done, even if its just a 5 minute 'quickie' at the end of class. I do end of term exams (often with the whole or half the grade riding on it) and it takes a week to make the tests and do all the marking. Students will come up and ask you about their grade and assessment methods, whats in the test, how they should review etc and I think thats part of what uni teaching is all about- having as much ammunition in your arsenal as possible and not just a 'pass' for showing up.
Also with the Westgate teachers, they teach a term, maybe a few students and then at the end of the term they are replaced by someone else- not much continuity, and a constant turnover of teachers. Whether thats a good or bad thing Im not sure, but students will also experience many different teaching styles and personalities.
Westgate teachers also are not paid during vacations I believe, which means they have to fill in the gaps when there are not lessons or make it up with privates etc. |
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Tonester
Joined: 24 Mar 2004
Posts: 145
Location: Ojiya, Niigata Pref
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| Posted: Wed May 12, 2004 11:51 pm Post subject: |
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| It's refreshing to hear about the westgate situation in more detail. It sounds better than the regular eikaiwaite job and you actually have to be qualified. That's a first! Put up the flag! Finally some companies want real teachers, not just native people that are stereotypically young, have a BA and a pulse (That is the stereotype. I know it doesn't apply to all but the image still exists). My only beef is the time you can be employed by them....... |
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Tonester
Joined: 24 Mar 2004
Posts: 145
Location: Ojiya, Niigata Pref
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| Posted: Thu May 13, 2004 12:09 am Post subject: |
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[quote="Glenski"]
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| If they can save a little money and maybe meet some girls in the process, so much the better. What's so terrible about it? |
But so many DON'T save money.
And, so many do more than "meet some girls". They are on the prowl for as many as they can get.
I went to a bar last night and saw an apparently (not sure if African-American or just African) African man talking to two Japanese girls. He was obviously trying to seduce them because hearing what he was saying it sounded very cheesy to me. He kept trying to get their phone numbers and then e-mail addresses and persuading them with all his might to give him either one or the other tand then turning around and saying that he doesn't push anyone to give their digits or e-mail addresses.
As I have said; I'm all for people having a good time but he was trying to chat up 2 at once. This makes the average gaijin look like a womaniser with this kind of person in this country. |
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TokyoLiz
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 1548
Location: Tokyo, Japan
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| Posted: Thu May 13, 2004 1:11 am Post subject: |
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Lostinparis,
It's good to hear some positive feedback about Westgate. There have been so few Westgate employees posting about their experiences.
Any others? |
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denise
Joined: 23 Apr 2003
Posts: 3419
Location: finally home-ish
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| Posted: Thu May 13, 2004 1:55 am Post subject: |
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Just out of curiosity--
My own image of the "bad gaijin" (eikaiwaite or not), the kind who comes here for thrills, booze, sex, etc., is always male. (Sorry, guys!)
What about us ladies? How is our reputation? What have we done to hurt the EFL industry? Or does the stereotype usually apply only to men?
Honestly, I am just curious here. If you've got any anecdotes of Ladies Gone Wild, I'd like to hear them, if for no other reason than to counter the stereotype in my own mind.
d |
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6810
Joined: 16 Nov 2003
Posts: 309
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| Posted: Thu May 13, 2004 3:02 am Post subject: |
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ok, I don't like to buy into stereotype threads, but this one I couldn't resist.
Please note, this stereotype may not apply in your experience. It's based on my own time in Japan as a fledgling Eikaiwa-geezer...
So here goes... [dons the asbestos lined salariman suit for fear of flames]
The Female Eikaiwa-ette
* [Usually] Australian
* Addicted to polyester
* Early career change, ended up in japan on a whim and is thus:
* ...bitter
* Sits in the shadows of bars/clubs hating on the guys getting laid. Hating on the guys getting drunk. hating on the guys' irresponsibility.
* Conformist (sticks by the rules handed don by the man/branch manager/head teacher)
* Has "done" all the "sights" and found them somewhat disappointing.
Well, any takers? |
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SEndrigo
Joined: 28 Apr 2004
Posts: 437
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| Posted: Thu May 13, 2004 4:07 am Post subject: |
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| 6810 wrote: |
The Female Eikaiwa-ette
* [Usually] Australian
* Addicted to polyester
* Early career change, ended up in japan on a whim and is thus:
* ...bitter
* Sits in the shadows of bars/clubs hating on the guys getting laid. Hating on the guys getting drunk. hating on the guys' irresponsibility.
* Conformist (sticks by the rules handed don by the man/branch manager/head teacher)
* Has "done" all the "sights" and found them somewhat disappointing.
Well, any takers? |
Strangely enough, I've heard many of these things as well about the "typical" Eikaiwa-ette !
I've also heard many gaijin girls have trouble finding men, 'cos the gaijin guys are all after the J girls...is this true?
Well crikey, even if it is, surely there must be some men out there who like those hot little aussie party animal chicky babes?
This might be an untapped market for you guys out there....pay attention! |
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denise
Joined: 23 Apr 2003
Posts: 3419
Location: finally home-ish
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| Posted: Thu May 13, 2004 4:55 am Post subject: |
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| SEndrigo wrote: |
I've also heard many gaijin girls have trouble finding men, 'cos the gaijin guys are all after the J girls...is this true?
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It's difficult, but not impossible. I seriously doubt that there are many women out there who come here for the men, J-guys or gaijin. Sure, finding love is always pleasant, but I just don't see it as a driving force for ladies to come here, the way it (stereotypically) is for the "bad gaijin" guy.
I have heard, unfortunately, of lack of love/sex/attention being enough to send gaijin ladies home, though.
d |
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J-kun
Joined: 13 Mar 2004
Posts: 43
Location: The Hell of Pachinko
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| Posted: Thu May 13, 2004 7:29 am Post subject: |
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Re: Westgate
I also worked for them for a term. While it wasn't bad, I was happy to be finished with it. The main reason being the number of classes- 6 or 7 a day plus "English Challenge," an optional free conversation period. The classes were only 45min but the repetition was a killer. Also, since attendance was so bad I often wished I could have consolidated the students into 3 classes a day and been done with it. I taught during the second term, and I don't know if the first guy scared them all off or what, but almost half the students never came to class, not even once.
The materials, resources and supplies they provide are also less than optimum and I could see a totally untrained and inexperienced teacher really floundering.
But, my only real objection to westgate is about sick days- you don't get any. If you miss a day of work, you don't get paid for that day AND you have to make up the lessons. So you do the same amount of teaching and the company gets to pocket a day's worth of your pay. 
Still, It's not a bad short term gig, especially if you're looking for a way to get a visa and then be free for better things after a few months. No broken contracts.
Re: Gaijin Females:
I was talking to a female co-worker the other day and we got on the subject of women in Japanese society. I made a comment to the effect that here it's like the US fifty years a go. Her response was, "Try a hundred!"
While there are always the standard reasons to work abroad (new experience, language, other culture etc..) I sometimes wonder why women would choose to come to, or stay in Japan. |
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Mike L.
Joined: 28 Feb 2003
Posts: 519
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| Posted: Thu May 13, 2004 10:36 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| The materials, resources and supplies they provide are also less than optimum and I could see a totally untrained and inexperienced teacher really floundering. |
So that's why they want the qualifed/experienced teachers!
| Quote: |
| But, my only real objection to westgate is about sick days- you don't get any. If you miss a day of work, you don't get paid for that day AND you have to make up the lessons. So you do the same amount of teaching and the company gets to pocket a day's worth of your pay. |
So they don't pay you for sick days, this is unfortunately legal 
But making you teach the classes, essentially unpaid overtime,insteading sending a sub teacher. I'm sure the university still pays for your services.
That's not legit! 
That's naked theft!  |
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