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HLJHLJ
Joined: 06 Oct 2009
Posts: 1218
Location: Ecuador
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 Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 3:52 pm Post subject: Beijing Normal University - job advert question |
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I've been vaguely/tentatively looking at job adverts for China for next year and have come across this one.
http://www.eslcafe.com/jobs/china/index.cgi?read=24215
I have a PhD in one of the required majors, so would presumably be able to ask for the 220 RMB / per hour rate.
I am aware that there are some issues with BNU, such as retaining a chunk of pay until the end of semester, unpaid holiday etc, some additional unpaid work.
However, what really concerns me is a more general issue with the number of hours: 20 hours of classroom time a week, plus a few extra none classroom hours on top.
The time is to be split between content classes and conversational English (I will assume a 50/50 split but the information is not given, so that's just a guess). OK, so conversation classes don't need a huge amount of prep, but 10 hours a week of content classes is pretty intense. Especially as it's likely to all have to be newly prepared, without course books to work from.
The monthly rate would be about 17600 RMB (term time only), plus accommodation, flights etc. So I would assume they will expect me to work hard for my money, and I have no problem with that. I just don't know whether there would be enough hours in a day for me to be able to get through all the teaching, plus prep, marking, etc.
Are these sorts of hours normal in Chinese universities?
Last edited by HLJHLJ on Thu Nov 03, 2011 2:57 am; edited 1 time in total |
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goeducks
Joined: 06 May 2011
Posts: 2
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| Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 2:09 am Post subject: BNUZ |
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From experience, I would highly recommend asking detailed questions before you sign the contract.
If possible, talk to another Teacher (not only Martin) that has a schedule similar to the one you would be working.
It's easy to get fooled by the high pay rate, and then gloss over concerns you may have.
Also, really nail them down about the housing you will receive. Make sure it is the same as what is stated in the job description. |
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HLJHLJ
Joined: 06 Oct 2009
Posts: 1218
Location: Ecuador
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| Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 2:56 am Post subject: |
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| Thanks for the info. I'm nowhere near the stage of negotiating contracts, I'm not even sure I want to work in China yet, let alone for BNUZ. It's more that I am wondering if this kind of setup is normal in China. |
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randyj
Joined: 19 Jan 2003
Posts: 460
Location: Nanjing, Jiangsu, China
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| Posted: Sun Nov 06, 2011 2:21 pm Post subject: |
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| The Zhuhai campus of BNU has been around for quite a long time, so there is probably a lot of information available online. I personally have no knowledge of the school. Maybe I shouldn't comment. Whenever I see XXX Branch of YYY Famous School, my antennae automatically rise. What is the business plan? Did YYY Famous School decide to establish an offshoot in a distant province to introduce their excellence to the suffering unwashed for unselfish motives? Or is YYY Famous School receiving a princely sum for the use of YYY's famous name? Maybe there is a nominal amount of academic support and scholarly exchange. I don't know. But I have personally witnessed enough of this type of arrangement to realize that the chief component is marketing. Then the glint of avarice has a tidy presence. Under these circumstances, I personally would periodically check my pocketbook to verify its presence. I would counsel others to do the same. |
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HLJHLJ
Joined: 06 Oct 2009
Posts: 1218
Location: Ecuador
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| Posted: Sun Nov 06, 2011 4:59 pm Post subject: |
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Thank you for you comments randyj, but I don't understand what you are trying to tell me.
As you say BUNZ has been around for a while, yet I am struggling to find much information about teaching there, let alone making contact with an actual present or ex teacher.
As for the rest, I am baffled. Are you saying the University has ulterior motives for having additional campuses? It's a pretty common situation worldwide, so I am not sure why that would be. Or that the University is being greedy in some way? Or that I am being greedy? (220rmb /hr is hardly a too good to be true offer, I can earn almost that here in Ecuador). Please could you clarify?
In the meantime, if there is anyone here who has taught content (i.e. not just EFL) in a Chinese university, I'd like to hear from you! |
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Non Sequitur
Joined: 23 May 2010
Posts: 4724
Location: China
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| Posted: Sun Nov 06, 2011 6:33 pm Post subject: |
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A quick way to find out about split of conversation and subject is to ask for the weekly schedule of a teacher doing the same kind of teaching in the current semester.
Either they are conning you in which case they will find a way to avoid giving you the information you want.
Or, if they are honest they will respond with the info.
I know you are undecided about China but remember things take time here and you may take until Christmas to get comfortable.
Until you sign up either party can walk.
If you do sign then they will probably want you to start after Chinese NY ie Feb 2012. |
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Simon in Suzhou
Joined: 09 Aug 2011
Posts: 404
Location: GZ
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| Posted: Sun Nov 06, 2011 11:47 pm Post subject: |
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The school is a legitimate branch of Beijing Normal University in Beijing. It's a very good school (well, for china). They are not a con. I worked there for the last 2 years. You will get exactly what is promised to you. It's one of the best paying universities in China and you do get treated well, imo.
With that said, you will work a lot of hours, which is the ONLY reason I left after 2 years. The only other complaint teachers generally have is that the campus is 45-60 minutes from the center of Zhuhai. |
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El Chupacabra
Joined: 22 Jul 2009
Posts: 378
Location: Kwangchow
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| Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 3:33 pm Post subject: Re: Beijing Normal University - job advert question |
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| HLJHLJ wrote: |
I've been vaguely/tentatively looking at job adverts for China for next year and have come across this one.
http://www.eslcafe.com/jobs/china/index.cgi?read=24215
I have a PhD in one of the required majors, so would presumably be able to ask for the 220 RMB / per hour rate.
I am aware that there are some issues with BNU, such as retaining a chunk of pay until the end of semester, unpaid holiday etc, some additional unpaid work.
However, what really concerns me is a more general issue with the number of hours: 20 hours of classroom time a week, plus a few extra none classroom hours on top.
The time is to be split between content classes and conversational English (I will assume a 50/50 split but the information is not given, so that's just a guess). OK, so conversation classes don't need a huge amount of prep, but 10 hours a week of content classes is pretty intense. Especially as it's likely to all have to be newly prepared, without course books to work from.
The monthly rate would be about 17600 RMB (term time only), plus accommodation, flights etc. So I would assume they will expect me to work hard for my money, and I have no problem with that. I just don't know whether there would be enough hours in a day for me to be able to get through all the teaching, plus prep, marking, etc.
Are these sorts of hours normal in Chinese universities? |
220 RMB does sound good, but I'm already finding extra teaching work for 200 with only a masters degree here in Guangzhou. So I wouldn't let that number be your only decision factor.
The 17k monthly sounds good if they truly offer accomodation. If this is the school I think it is, then it's a school I turned down three years ago. I think they used to have a confusing institution name that includes Beida, but the actual deal is they lease land from Beida. The housing were offsite apaprtments, which may be why they need to pay you close to 17k.
I found the director at the time to be friendly, and the classrooms lovely, but was a little scared by thier eagerness to recruit me without an interview. That flagged me that something might be wrong there. I hope I'm wrong about that. But in general, be wary of anyone that wants to sign you up within 5 minutes of walking into their office. |
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Simon in Suzhou
Joined: 09 Aug 2011
Posts: 404
Location: GZ
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| Posted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 12:05 am Post subject: |
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El Chupacabra wrote:
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| The 17k monthly sounds good if they truly offer accomodation. If this is the school I think it is, then it's a school I turned down three years ago. I think they used to have a confusing institution name that includes Beida, but the actual deal is they lease land from Beida. The housing were offsite apaprtments, which may be why they need to pay you close to 17k. |
This is NOT the same as BNU. El Chupa is describing UIC which is a seperate joint-venture school on the same campus. Beijing Normal University does provide full housing on campus, and I heard from a teacher there that they have just built brand new apartments for the new teachers.
Also, to be fair, it is hard to compare what you make "on the side" to a normal per hour salary. Yes, you can make 200 per hour tutoring or doing part-time work, but I doubt you can find more than 5 universities in China that will give you this salary with a visa and free housing.
The downsides are the number of hours (but paid by the hour, so if you want to make a lot...), unpaid holidays, and unpaid english corner (8 hours a semester). Even without the holiday pay, its hard to find a university gig that compares. |
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mitchm
Joined: 17 Jan 2011
Posts: 25
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| Posted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 12:31 am Post subject: |
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English Corner is down to 4 hours a semester required. Most people this term have 20 teaching hours, give or take 1 or 2. Housing is a 5 minute walk from classroom buildings.
The classes you are assigned will be largely arbitrary but they will be mostly a mix of either oral English, subject classes, and reading. Even the subject classes I imagine are not too time-consuming to plan for if you know anything about American and British lit/culture. |
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El Chupacabra
Joined: 22 Jul 2009
Posts: 378
Location: Kwangchow
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| Posted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 2:40 am Post subject: |
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| Simon in Suzhou wrote: |
El Chupacabra wrote:
| Quote: |
| The 17k monthly sounds good if they truly offer accomodation. If this is the school I think it is, then it's a school I turned down three years ago. I think they used to have a confusing institution name that includes Beida, but the actual deal is they lease land from Beida. The housing were offsite apaprtments, which may be why they need to pay you close to 17k. |
This is NOT the same as BNU. El Chupa is describing UIC which is a seperate joint-venture school on the same campus. Beijing Normal University does provide full housing on campus, and I heard from a teacher there that they have just built brand new apartments for the new teachers.
Also, to be fair, it is hard to compare what you make "on the side" to a normal per hour salary. Yes, you can make 200 per hour tutoring or doing part-time work, but I doubt you can find more than 5 universities in China that will give you this salary with a visa and free housing.
The downsides are the number of hours (but paid by the hour, so if you want to make a lot...), unpaid holidays, and unpaid english corner (8 hours a semester). Even without the holiday pay, its hard to find a university gig that compares. |
Thank you, Simon, for verifying that this is not the institution I remember. It is confusing because both campuses are llong the same stretch of road, with UIC nested inside the campus. The current online map shows how they're all intertwined.
At UIC I would have been offsite, but only a bicycle ride away. This a very beautiful stretch of Zhuhai, which didn't have too much traffic when I was there. So that arrangement wouldn't be too bad either.
20 hours of teaching is a high load for universities, but not an extreme load. But we should be clear that we are discussing an hourly rate that adds up to 17600 on a typical month of 4 weeks. Taxes and non-teaching stretches will reduce the effective monthly salary considerably. If Spring Festival and holidays are unpaid, then that's approximately 20k that won't be paid. For a 10-month contract that brings you monthly to about 15k. Taxes may also be the responsiblity of the teacher. |
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HLJHLJ
Joined: 06 Oct 2009
Posts: 1218
Location: Ecuador
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| Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 12:38 am Post subject: |
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Thanks again all. The info is really helpful. I am finding it quite hard to get my head around all the details for China, so clarification on the different schools and campuses is really useful too.
It's actually the opportunity to do some content/academic teaching that attracts me (although the hourly rate sounds pretty good too). Are there many opportunities for teaching content classes (in English I mean)?
Also, is there a ball park figure for tax, or does it vary widely? |
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El Chupacabra
Joined: 22 Jul 2009
Posts: 378
Location: Kwangchow
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| Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 3:33 am Post subject: |
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| HLJHLJ wrote: |
| It's actually the opportunity to do some content/academic teaching that attracts me (although the hourly rate sounds pretty good too). Are there many opportunities for teaching content classes (in English I mean)? |
I also enjoy teaching content classes, and since coming to China in '07 have found occasional opportunities to do so. Most tertiary teaching assignments are really language-training, however.
In some cases, you can teach some content whilst training in skills. Occasionally, you might be invited to design and run workshops for teachers in training. Just try to deliver quality in any class you teach (or train), and tell your deans what subjects you'd also like to teach. If they like your work ethic, and of course you, then they will occasionally line up unique opportunities for you. |
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Mister Al
Joined: 28 Jun 2004
Posts: 840
Location: In there
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| Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2011 9:16 am Post subject: |
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| Rate of RMB220 isn't great. I charge 250 for IELTS classes and have only a degree |
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HLJHLJ
Joined: 06 Oct 2009
Posts: 1218
Location: Ecuador
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| Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2011 1:45 am Post subject: |
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El Chupacabra, that's pretty much the situation I am in now, and it's OK, but I would happily trade it for something more definite.
Mister Al, thanks, interesting to know what people are charging now. |
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