Job Discussion Forums

[time to teach]

[Baozi man]

Whatever your qualifications, this will be your first job in China. Why would you expect to start at the top of the ladder? I paid some serious dues here before landing in a very good position. A Ph.D is nothing to some of these people. To others, it is something of great significance. You want to hook up with a school in the latter camp.

Considering the length of vacations, wages need to have enough extra for some serious travel, unless you like doing nothing for several weeks at a time. Watching DVDs can turn your brain into mush. You should figure on at least 20,000RMB travel money a year. You might get by on less but maybe more. Japan is not cheap. Other places such as Thailand and Laos make great travel spots during vacation time.

Once you learn to shop for tickets, you might save half but figure ~5000RMB for RT tickets around Asia. Leave China during the New Year period. Travel is very expensive during 10 days around the New Year's day.

Considering the horrible air pollution in Beijing, why would anyone want to work there?

[El Chupacabra]

Baozi dude,

The OP is considering a job in Zhuhai, in what looks to be a relatively unpolluted and quite beautiful campus. At least it was in '08 when I last visited there.

But I'm curious why you suggest 20k for travel. There's lots to see and do within the PRC, and even hops to adjacent countries aren't typically expensive. 20k to get back in forth the home country is nice, but your budget seems a bit overkill.

Each of us have different priorities, but I'd rather have 20k in a cigar box than spend it on travel.

[Baozi man]

Thanks Chupa, for reminding me that Beijing Normal University is just the name of the school.

Regarding the budget, 20,000 is an annual figure. Covers two months in summer and a month in winter. The number is based on the assumptions that he will not be able to lock in heavily discounted air fares or cheap hotel rates. It also considers that during a ten day period around the Chinese New Year hotel costs can triple and food prices also increase significantly.

I know this is true in resort areas such as Sanya, Hainan and Xishuangbanna. Your 50-200 RMB/night hotel can go up to 150-600RMB during that period, if business warrants it. You can be sure it will double or triple.

Airfares are also top price in that period just before school starts. I also specifically mentioned Japan as a possible destination which is not cheap but definitely worth a visit. RT from Beijing to Xishuangbanna is ~5000RMB without steep discount


The idea of a vacation in China is absurd. I hate this place--the noise, the people, the crowds. It's a disgusting place to be when trying to relax. I like my job and so forth but vacationing or relaxing here is not easy. Laos is like a paradise in the winter but getting there from China requires either some money or know how or both.

[HLJHLJ]

Baozi man, academic teaching is a different beast from ESL, you don't go back to the bottom of the pile just because you change country. In any case, RMB220/hr for a short term contract without holiday pay, no paid research time etc isn't even close to the top of the ladder.

Anyway, it's something of a moot point now. It would seem that despite the wording of the advert, they aren't actually offering any academic teaching positions at the moment. I'm not going to jump ship for China for straight English teaching, so I'll keep looking for now.

All the advice received (here and via PM) was much appreciated.

[Baozi man]

OP, Whatever fantasies you might have about academia in China, you are responding to a job for an ESL position, unless you happen to teach Japanese. In that case, you would be responding to a JSL position.

A gentleman from Australia was telling me about his job in the computer department of a major Chinese university. He was working on his Ph.D at the time. He was connected to the computer department of an Australian university. I asked him to describe the courses he taught. After listening for a few minutes I said, "They are scamming you. You are teaching ESL. They may be telling you that you are teaching computers; however, think about what you just said." What are you teaching?" He said, "You are right. I'm teaching ESL"

"Furthermore," said I, "If you were a real professor in the computer department, you wouldn't be living in a student's dorm."

Several days later, I got a call from the lady who was managing his department, offering me an ESL position, the position he had walked away from after our conversation. I taught his "computer professor's class" for the next year.

There may be legitimate jobs in academia. I doubt that the job you mentioned is one.

[El Chupacabra]

[Baozi man]

Thank you Chupa, for making that fine distinction. ESL or EFL, the job looks to be just another FT job , a ring of gold in the nose of a pig, so to speak.

Note: "Applicants should be qualified to PhD or Masters level, professors or associate professors in the fields of Linguistics, Education, History, Psychology, Human Resource Management, Literature, Philosophy or other related majors."

What real language teaching qualifications does a Ph.D in history, philosophy, or human resources management provide? Some Ph.D candidates find that meeting the language qualification is the most difficult part of their degree quest. Just because they can barely pass a FL exam with a dictionary doesn't mean they can teach a language.

Additionally, I find it hard to believe that a serious search to fill a real academic position in a Chinese university would be conducted on Dave's ESL board, even if it is posted there.

Sure, they want someone with an impressive degree to be an FT. Some FTs would like to sleep with Gong Li, too.

[El Chupacabra]

Yes, the real academic jobs seem to be elsewhere. Or, as my current gig came about, through guanxi. Speaking of job lists, the Chronicle seems to be firewalled in my neck of China. That's a great resource for academic jobs if you can access it. TESOL.org also carries some interesting leads for the more academically focused FTs.