Job Discussion Forums

[isabel]

I generally agree with you, John, but not all people have the luxury of such choices. We white western native English speakers have an enormous advantage of birth. We speak of "happiness" as if it were a birthright. "Moving to another table" is not universally an option- in fact it is a rather rare option. The poor subcontinentals at work in the tragic kingdom have no such options.

As for working in Saudi Arabia, I have to say I do know of at least a couple of men who enjoy it. One is a stone alcoholic and the other an abstemious vegan (who is having what can only be described as a joyful time of it). They have totally opposite mindsets, but both approaches- either totally aware or totally anesthetized- seem to work for them.

I like what you have to say about boredom. We humans are also creative creatures who can cure our own ennui if we put our mind to it. I didn't like the Kingdom, to put it quite mildly, but I was seldom bored.

[DirtGuy]

Having my first real interview later today with more to come in the near future so this thread has my undivided attention.

From reading these postings and others, the one factor that keeps jumping out at me is going with a recruiter vs. a direct-hire. People who have gone through recruiters seem to be unhappy while those that went the direct-hire route are generally OK. While I certainly want to go the direct-hire route, I'm wondering if all recruiters are bad or just most of them?

Anyone's thoughts on the above?

DirtGuy

[johnslat]

Dear isabel,

When I wrote about "moving to another table," admittedly I didn't have in mind laborers from, say, Bangladesh.

I was posting about EFL teachers, who, generally speaking, do have the "luxury of choice."

Regards,
John

[strangerthanparadise]

Unfortunately some - perhaps even many - recruiters lie through their teeth to you, painting an unrealistic picture (do not confuse with Surrealism) of what to expect: to get you hired and subsequently collect the finder's fee. Remember the 4 Fs? Find'm - Feel'm - F**k'm Forget'm.
Or perhaps it's just ignorance on their part...who knows.

I was lucky to get hired through a recruiter who was refreshingly open and honest about the company where he had been a teacher himself. I knew what I was getting myself into, or at least thought I did, and fortunately I had no (major) surprises when I got there. It was (and is) like he said it was.

I strongly believe that being or becoming happy in KSA depends very much on your own mental make-up (I am not talking cosmetics here, just in case some of those posters here are provoked into making ridiculously pathetic comments, meant to funny and are not even remotely so). Ignore the moaners out there, they don't add to the quality of life in general and certainly not yours. And you'll be okay.

Good luck with your interviews. Switch on your lie-detector.

STP

[Badar Bin Bada Boom]

[johnslat]

Dear B4,

"It is poppycock, as someone else pointed out.

Well, John, yes we can. We CAN make objective value judgments about different countries and cultures. It's done all the time, with, for example, various rankings of places to live, as flawed as the rankings are. It's in the eye of the beholder, yes, but I hardly believe in "any opinion is as valid as any other" any more than I believe that all countries and cultures are equally worthwhile. Taking the latter to its logical extreme, you could be a feminist who believes a Taliban culture is perfectly fine. You could be a humanistic democrat who believes Nazi Germany was perfectly acceptable--that was a national culture too, you know. Fortunately it changed.[/i]"

I'm somewhat confused here - I'm missing how your quote of what I posted has anything at all to do with making "objective value judgments about different countries and cultures" (never mind the question of whether it's possible for anyone to even MAKE an "objective value judgment.")

The quote, as far as I can see, is talking only about being bored. Could you explain to me how that turned into making objective value judgments?

Regards,
John

[Badar Bin Bada Boom]

Well now, that shouldn't be too hard to figure out, considering the topic of the thread is whether Saudi Arabia is such a bad place to live. and your post was about whether Saudi Arabia is inherently boring or people just get bored in any old place. Seems pretty clear to me. Tell me what I'm missing. You mean the topic of boredom you brought up had absolutely nothing to do with the quality of life in Saudi Arabia? Ah hah. I must be on the wrong thread then. Or you should have put that post on some philosophical forum.

[johnslat]

Dear B4,

Of course the topic of boredom is relevant to the quality of life anywhere.
But the inclination to become bored is a very subjective matter and does not have to depend on one's exterior surroundings.

As volgaman (the one to whom I addressed my post) wrote: "The boredom is relative."

And I'd also agree with what strangerthanparadise wrote:

"I strongly believe that being or becoming happy in KSA depends very much on your own mental make-up (I am not talking cosmetics here, just in case some of those posters here are provoked into making ridiculously pathetic comments, meant to funny and are not even remotely so). Ignore the moaners out there, they don't add to the quality of life in general and certainly not yours. And you'll be okay."

Regarding the "subjectivity" of boredom, a couple of quotes:

1. Richard Lovelace: To Althea, From Prison:

"Stone walls do not a prison make,
Nor iron bars a cage;
Minds innocent and quiet take
That for an hermitage"

2. Milton: Paradise Lost

�The mind is its own place, and in itself can make a heaven of hell, a hell of heaven..�

I'm sorry - but I still don't see how my post connects to "making objective value judgments about a country/culture" and I certainly don't see how the Taliban and the Nazis connect.

Regards,
John

[kelticgirl]

Love, love that quote by Milton Paradise Lost..never read it before (or else I've forgotten:)

[Badar Bin Bada Boom]

[DirtGuy]

If boredom is a problem in SA, does that mean that there is enough leftover time in a day to pursue online education? I'm looking down the road and thinking that either another degree or a certificate program in a certain field would help me stay employed. No way I have the time now but it sounds like there would be enough time in SA. Is my thinking correct

Thanks.

DirtGuy

[johnslat]

Dear B4,

Well, thank you for trying. I'm beginning to wonder if I'm losing it since what seems so clear to you is still totally obscure to me.

However, since you wrote this:

"I'm sure it's clear to others."

I'll issue a forum-wide appeal: Despite Badar Bin Bada Boom's best efforts, I'm still unable to see what he's getting at. Could any of you others (to whom his point is clear) make an attempt to explain to me what I'm missing in that respect?

Specifically, how does my opinion - that boredom is a subjective, relative condition and will vary among individually residing/working in Saudi, that some will likely be very bored there while others will probably be seldom, if ever, bored - connect to this response of his

"Well, John, yes we can. We CAN make objective value judgments about different countries and cultures. It's done all the time, with, for example, various rankings of places to live, as flawed as the rankings are. It's in the eye of the beholder, yes, but I hardly believe in "any opinion is as valid as any other" any more than I believe that all countries and cultures are equally worthwhile. Taking the latter to its logical extreme, you could be a feminist who believes a Taliban culture is perfectly fine. You could be a humanistic democrat who believes Nazi Germany was perfectly acceptable--that was a national culture too, you know. Fortunately it changed.[/i]"


One more question: Who is being quoted here? . . . ."any opinion is as valid as any other" . . . .

Thanks in advance; I appreciate any help.

Regards,
John

[Badar Bin Bada Boom]

[JohnHarris]

Middle East Beast: I really like your comments, and I would never tell someone detained in Guantanamo or a Chinese prison, "It's all in your mind and character; don't you see that other people are happy here? It's your problem, Bub."

I have lived in KSA,and threre are serious problems quite other than anything that has been mentioned in the posts above.

I know how to deal with boredom, so that was not a problem at all for me. It could be for others, and I would recognize that.

There are three things that are completely legal in Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Ireland, and the United States, (perhaps in South Africa also), and these three things are completely illegal in the KSA. Again, I had no problem with these prohibitions, although I could see how others might have a problem with them. I could also see clearly that some other people were seriously deprived and were suffering from it.

However, none of what I have just written are the most serious problems with working in the KSA.

But, if I specify what these problems are, I will have to get into a protracted apologia contra the usual gang, and I do not just have the energy for that right now.

So, I will conclude by saying; yes, by all means you should teach in KSA it's a great place to teach!

[johnslat]

Dear JohnHarris,

"But, if I specify what these problems are, I will have to get into a protracted apologia contra the usual gang, and I do not just have the energy for that right now."

Sorry to learn you're so energy-deficient. May I suggest quaffing a few of these:

http://sciencebasedpharmacy.files.wordpress.com/2013/01/energy-drinks.jpg

and then returning to tell everyone just what "these problems" are.

Regards,
John