Job Discussion Forums

[Old Surrender]

So I'm trying something new: A group essay.

How does one evaluate group work? Are there any cross-cultural differences I have to look out for? Would it be worth my time to have them grade each other anonymously? (I'm afraid one person would do all of the work but still give the slackers full credit with comments like "They are hard and harmonious workers! Kitten rainbow star."


I have it set up where I can track their outline, rough drafts, and final draft (it's all in a packet that I made and I take home after class). Plus, I provide them sources and they're only allowed to use the ones I provide ... you'd be amazed at what students find and consider as sources.

I am opening the floor to suggestions. Thanks.

[Baozi man]

Understand grades for what they are--a joke. If you are asking about grading here, you are misguided and naive. In all likelihood, the grades you give your students are meaningless.

Learn to cook your grades so all but 2 or three students pass the classs. That's what your school wants. They don't want to explain to you that your opinions about the students academic achievements are worthless.

They have numbers to meet assigned by higher ups who don't want excuses or explanations, they want the outcomes to fit what has already been decided. Realize that when you fail a student, you may be required to give the student another test, which means more work for you. The system is designed that way. Only the dumbest instructors want to make more work for themselves for which they receive no salary.

If this doesn't apply to your unique situation, OK. You may be one of the ~10%.

[Old Surrender]

[Baozi man]

OS, I'd like to better understand why you think you are one of those lucky(?) 10% of teachers whose grades actually "matter."

Are you teaching English majors?
Are you teaching in a military university?
Are you teaching in a "foreign language" school of any kind?
Are you teaching in a corporate environment?

[big_big_bang_theory_fan]

[Old Surrender]

Where I work does not matter. I know there is integrity and meaning in the grades I give.

I have already figured out what I am going to do with my class, so I have no use for this thread anymore. However, I would be pleased if people contribute their ideas to evaluating group work so others who may have the same question will have a source to draw from.

If this turns into another whine fest/flame war, I'm going to pack up my toys and hui jia!

[Baozi man]

"Where I work does not matter. I know there is integrity and meaning in the grades I give."

There may be "integrity and meaning" as far as you are concerned; however, as far as others are concerned, unless you happen to be in one of the places I inquired about, your classes are either:

1) a joke,
2)an unnecessary burden on already overloaded students
3) a moneymaking scheme.

Your classes may be a combination of all three.
Oral English is virtually irrelevant to most students. Actually, it may interfere with their success over the long term, in China. Oral English is not a relevant component of any test required for advancement in either academia or the workplace. English teachers may be an exception; however, many of them can hardly speak English.

Granted, certain jobs require oral English, such as international trade. It is unlikely that the number of jobs like that have any statistical significance. Teachers/students going abroad for study also need oral English for IELTS. There are notable exceptions, but the actual number is quite small in the context of Chinese education

How many members of the CCPCC speak English? How many school principals or teachers in any other discipline than English can speak English?

Some time ago, it was decided that China needed more college graduates in order to catch up with the West; consequently, from Beijing came the order to all provinces to start producing college graduates. Presumably, an English component was a part of that decree.That's what we are a part of.

If you fail students, you interfere with the numbers that are being fudged to satisfy this decree from Beijing. Do you actually believe that your integrity means the slightest thing to someone whose job success is dependent on meeting those goals?

I sat with a leader from the top university in a major Chinese province cooking grades. Grades I refused to cook she asked me to leave in pencil. Any idea why? Her leader told me to do the same kind of stuff with grading that OS is describing. I ignored him. Why bother, when the grades are going to be adjusted to meet an already agreed upon statistical model?

These bosses excel in making you think that what you do matters.
That's always the case in helping professions. Bosses know how to validate you, manipulate you, tug on your heart strings, whatever. It's kind of like being groomed by a pedophile. Just be sure you have a jar of anti monkey butt handy.

You can entertain yourselves with whatever fantasies you prefer regarding your integrity and the "meaning" of grades. I prefer reality.

[rogerwilco]

At my last college the classes were ranked from highest scorers to lowest scorers, and the student's number was based upon that students average score in their own class from highest to lowest.

So, student number 3300001 was the highest scoring student in the class, and 33000050 was the lowest, as an example.

If I had been expected to "cook" the scores, it would have been very easy to know which students were expected to have high scores, and which students were expected to have low scores.

[MisterButtkins]

I have to agree with Baozi man. I am teaching English majors and I think the grades for the FTs class matter little. No one is going to fail, no matter what you do about it. They will just bribe someone and get their grade changed. If their parents are rich or well connected, or if one of the cute girls decides to sleep with someone important, they are getting the grade changed. There's nothing you can do about it. If you really think the scores you submit for your classes are the final scores and have any ultimate importance you are a bit naive. At best the highest scoring students will still get the highest scores and some of the lower-scoring students will still get low scores, but they likely won't be the exact numbers you entered.

[Old Surrender]

<shakes head at derailed thread, packs toys in bag, goes home>

[MisterButtkins]

To answer OP's question IMO group work is useful but there's really no fair way to assign grades. I'm curious how your grading method works. I predict most of the groups will give equal points to everyone.

[Baozi man]

Played swords, not toys.

[Ariadne]

When I have group projects it's usually a performance of some kind, like a skit or a song. I give everyone in the group the same grade. It is their job to practice, to ensure equal participation, and to point out problems (too low, no eye contact) to each other. It may not be the fairest method, but it does put some peer pressure into the mix. Student XX has to help student ZZ and student ZZ has to take advice from a peer. Improvement is the goal, not verifying that student XX speaks great English. If a group does poorly I will give them the reasons and offer a redo.

Re the off topic topic... The grades I give mean something to me and to my students. I have no control over or knowledge of whether or not the school changes the grades that I submit at the end of the term, and I do not spend any time worrying about it.

.

[jaydizzle]

[rogerwilco]