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7969
Joined: 26 Mar 2003
Posts: 5782
Location: Coastal Guangdong
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 Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2011 3:50 am Post subject: |
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| time to teach wrote: |
| I'm on an F visa now, I'm making great money, I'm not in trouble, I'm not going to get in trouble, I'm registered with the local police department, I'm in good standing with my employer, yes, my employer, where I go to work and get paid for what I do, cash, tax free. Any foreigner who thinks he or she is in a position to judge or condemn others with the sort of smug repartee so common in the caf� status quo is a nincompoop! |
I don't really have a problem with people working on an F visa, I did it once myself. I wouldn't do it again though because the one time I was on an F visa was the one time in this country the employer tried (but failed) to cheat me out of benefits. Sure, go ahead and work on an F visa, but if things go pear shaped you really have nowhere to turn for help and you're on your own. |
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Opiate
Joined: 10 Aug 2011
Posts: 630
Location: Qingdao
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| Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2011 4:18 am Post subject: |
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| 7969 wrote: |
| time to teach wrote: |
| I'm on an F visa now, I'm making great money, I'm not in trouble, I'm not going to get in trouble, I'm registered with the local police department, I'm in good standing with my employer, yes, my employer, where I go to work and get paid for what I do, cash, tax free. Any foreigner who thinks he or she is in a position to judge or condemn others with the sort of smug repartee so common in the caf� status quo is a nincompoop! |
I don't really have a problem with people working on an F visa, I did it once myself. I wouldn't do it again though because the one time I was on an F visa was the one time in this country the employer tried (but failed) to cheat me out of benefits. Sure, go ahead and work on an F visa, but if things go pear shaped you really have nowhere to turn for help and you're on your own. |
I agree with what you said in theory but....where can you realistically turn for help while having the proper paperwork? SAFEA? Is that realistic or optimistic?
Honestly, I can see many reasons why one would prefer to work under an F or L as opposed to a Z/FEC. Can change jobs on a whim without worrying about having to leave the country and avoiding the release letter headaches as a couple of examples.
I personally know more than a handful of foreigners who were popped for working on L's and F's. All remained in country except those who had expired visas. Well...one guy did not have his visa renewed but he was a 'special' case. He was on a spousal L but had a few negative interactions with the PSB previously.
Granted, this is a small sample size but I am only going by what I see. |
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dean_a_jones
Joined: 03 Jul 2009
Posts: 1151
Location: Wuhan, China
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| Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2011 4:38 am Post subject: |
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| jaydizzle wrote: |
| time to teach wrote: |
| I'm on an F visa now, I'm making great money, I'm not in trouble, I'm not going to get in trouble, I'm registered with the local police department, I'm in good standing with my employer, yes, my employer, where I go to work and get paid for what I do, cash, tax free. Any foreigner who thinks he or she is in a position to judge or condemn others with the sort of smug repartee so common in the caf� status quo is a nincompoop! |
I bet 20 yuan you're the one who whines about illegal Mexicans stealing Americans' jobs back home. You're the same thing. |
That is twice I have seen this comment now, which is two times too many. Pointless sniping with no basis whatsoever.
In the end, neither visa will guarantee a good result with an employer. In my opinion, you should only come over on an F-visa (with the intention of remaining on it and working) if you have a fair bit of cash in reserve in case things don't work out and you need some time to find something more suitable. It also helps if you have China experience and understand the general pitfalls, problems and how to spot them. .
I think for first time teachers, the legitimate route means you are more likely to find an employer who will stick to whatever contract you see. You can also make more of a fuss about said contract, as it carries more weight as a legal document. This doesn't mean it will be upheld, or that there are third party institutions you can turn to when things go bad that will realistically provide support. But your position is that much stronger as you are here legitimately. When I post in support of obtaining the right documents, it is usually to warn brand new teachers of the dangers that coming over on the wrong visa can cause.
This is not just a China thing, any illegal worker anywhere in the world is more likely to be taken advantage of due to their situation. |
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Mr. English
Joined: 25 Nov 2009
Posts: 298
Location: Nakuru, Kenya
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| Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2011 12:51 pm Post subject: |
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| As a matter of fact, LanGuTou, the Chinese government does welcome people who work on F visas; many people do it, have no troubles even though the government is aware that they are doing it, and the government is most certainly well-aware of this issue. And I do not whine about Mexican immigrants either, Jaydizzle; I welcome them as they are a huge asset, as are most hard-working immigrants, and most immigrants are just that. Those who whine about the visas other people work on are the whiners. Here in China, the government, apparently unknown to the legal experts who contribute to this site, is incredibly corrupt. You can work on any visa you want to work on, and it is highly unlikely you will have any trouble. From what I have read and heard, the people who most often run into trouble are those who work for employers who run into trouble; the issue is not the visa you hold. |
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7969
Joined: 26 Mar 2003
Posts: 5782
Location: Coastal Guangdong
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| Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2011 12:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Opiate wrote: |
| 7969 wrote: |
| time to teach wrote: |
| I'm on an F visa now, I'm making great money, I'm not in trouble, I'm not going to get in trouble, I'm registered with the local police department, I'm in good standing with my employer, yes, my employer, where I go to work and get paid for what I do, cash, tax free. Any foreigner who thinks he or she is in a position to judge or condemn others with the sort of smug repartee so common in the caf� status quo is a nincompoop! |
I don't really have a problem with people working on an F visa, I did it once myself. I wouldn't do it again though because the one time I was on an F visa was the one time in this country the employer tried (but failed) to cheat me out of benefits. Sure, go ahead and work on an F visa, but if things go pear shaped you really have nowhere to turn for help and you're on your own. |
I agree with what you said in theory but....where can you realistically turn for help while having the proper paperwork? SAFEA? Is that realistic or optimistic? |
Yes, the SAFEA office where they can mediate or arbitrate disputes. May or may not do any good but it's one more option than you have otherwise. |
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Lobster
Joined: 20 Jun 2006
Posts: 2040
Location: Somewhere under the Sea
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| Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2011 1:31 pm Post subject: |
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| the people who most often run into trouble are those who work for employers who run into trouble |
And unfortunately, those are often the employers who are not authorized to hire FTs. Then the company's problems become the FT's problems. Personally, I don't care what visa other people use. I just wouldn't want that feeling of added insecurity.
RED |
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Mister Al
Joined: 28 Jun 2004
Posts: 840
Location: In there
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| Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2011 1:50 pm Post subject: |
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| I don't have a problem with anyone working on an F or any other kind of visa, it's their choice, just stating the facts to the OP. |
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Gtomas
Joined: 03 Jun 2010
Posts: 100
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| Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2011 9:55 am Post subject: |
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I'm happy with my employer so far, but I'm not on a Z visa either. It seems to be the norm out here. I was told that it is virtually impossible to get a Z visa from the local government here.
I taught in China for about one year in a different school, so I wasn't totally ignorant when I decided to take the job I have now, but I never thought I would be put on anything but a Z visa. I didn't even ask. |
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LanGuTou
Joined: 23 Mar 2009
Posts: 621
Location: Shandong
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| Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2011 5:14 am Post subject: |
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| Mr. English wrote: |
| As a matter of fact, LanGuTou, the Chinese government does welcome people who work on F visas; many people do it, have no troubles even though the government is aware that they are doing it, and the government is most certainly well-aware of this issue. |
Interesting statement!
I used to be a foreign teacher. I am no longer. I am now legally self employed and part of a very large, central government funded industrial improvement project. In my daily duties, I meet a great deal of local, provincial and central government officials, industrial leaders, lawyers, bankers, accountants etc. The conversations around the dinner table are very interesting. I now get a much greater insight into the workings of the Chinese power brokers than I ever did as a FT.
The vast majority of officialdom in China are far from welcoming of any foreigner, let alone the ones are working on the wrong type of visas, avoiding tax and operating illegal businesses. The only foreigners that have any kind of appeal to these people are those that contribute heavily to Chinese society or development. FT's are not included in either of those categories from the perspective of the government.
You are right in saying that corruption is rife especially amongst local government officials are the PSB. The common factor amongst all corrupt people though is that they like sifting other people's money. I would be even more worried if these people know about you and turn a blind eye. One day, they might decide that you are ripe for the picking.
How easy a target do you think a foreigner working illegally in China is to a corrupt police officer?
You could end up in a situation whereby you either pay up or get hung out to dry! |
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