Job Discussion Forums

[Spixe]

First, I searched on here thinking someone has probably posted this question, but the search was broken for me, so I'm sorry if this was asked.
Second, thanks to a private PM, a good person told me many on this forum are concerned about ethical and moral behavior, what is acceptable and what isn't, and get in arguments about it or will flame/criticize or ignore the poster if they do not have a legit reason for quitting. I hope you guys won't be too hard on me for not putting tons of detail here, as to not weigh down this post (its long enough as it is). For the most part, I must move to a different city as soon as possible in order to take care of a family member who lives in that city and is going through an emotional and mental breakdown. She needs me, simple as that, and I'm willing to break contract to take care of her. If you think I am morally wrong to do so, I'm sorry, but please let's not argue about it. Also, the quitting would be AFTER a semester is fully finished, 2 months before a new semester starts. So it's not just upping and leaving in the middle of classes.

I have worked at a university for 6 months and have another 6 months left to go under contract. However, due to the issue explained above, I must leave the school and move to a different city. I've talked to my old employer in the city, and they are more than happy to hire me back and give me a visa. However, after talking to a friend/supervisor (one who has no real authority but seems in the know) at my current job, he says quitting while mid contract, regardless of the reason, will pretty much guarantee them not giving me a letter of recommendation and a letter of release, the two things that are necessary in order to get another visa somewhere else. With this said, if I quit, not only can I not get another job visa, but with no visa at all, I would be forced to leave the country.

Is this right? This seems VERY extreme, just because someone breaks a contract somewhere, they will virtually be kicked out of China? Is there any way to get past this? I'd appreciate any advice from anyone in-the-know.

[JamesD]

Just my two cents.

I have found most Chinese are open to compromise in situations that involve family emergencies/health/need.
"Oh yes, Teacher Jones had a family emergency so we insisted that he take advantage of our largesse and immediately leave to take care of his sister, as any good brother would."

If you approach the person who is actually in charge and explain the importance of caring for a sick family member you should be able to work something out. Give them an option that allows them to be the good guys.
Maybe you could could come back in a year and do another term? Offer to help organize a new schedule for them? Do some private lessons via Skype for the son of the FAO who is heading off to college?

Family duty, give and take. Keep it light and see what they say before you panic about what they could do. Make deals rather than demands.

[Baozi man]

It's a shakedown for money, that's all. If your reason is legitimate, there is an out, or should be, in the contract. YOU pay a fine. In exchange for that, they give you whatever documents you need to resume life in another situation.

Take the FAO aside, point out the penalty clause. Let him know that you will hand him ~5,10K in order to resolve the problem. In return, you want a red chopped release letter.

If he disagrees, try someone else, such as the VP for teaching affairs. Let them know that you are leaving either way. One way will leave them with several thousand RMB and you with a release letter. The other way will leave you both with nothing.

If they don't understand, not much you can do. You may have to use the penalty RMB to help someone, in the future, understand why you have no release letter.

[Opiate]

Do not mention paying anything right away. Do what James D mentioned first. If that fails, talk to your new school and see if they require the release letter. If they do not require it then just bug out....try and give as much notice as possible though.

Only if your new school requires the release letter and the penalty is more than a quick trip to HK should you consider paying the fine in your contract for leaving.

[Baozi man]

It's not only the school that may require it. The provincial FAO's office may also require it prior to issuing a new FEC. Depends on where and who you are dealing with.

[xiguagua]

I have had this experience before working in a remote part of Guizhou. Just as you is was after the first term was complete and I had another term to go on the contract. I talked to my FAO/Vice Head Master and explained to him the situation, I generally keep on good terms with everyone and always try my best, never late for class, never call out, always friendly etc. So I had a good relationship with him. I told him I will leave and we came to the agreement that he would allow me to leave without paying the penalty. He also kept my visa and residence permit open long enough for my new school to change it without having to leave the country and gave me the release letter.

I can't stress enough that you have to keep a good relationship with people, I had no trouble at all in changing schools, but most importantly you have to make sure they are not going to cancel your RP immediately, otherwise you will be forced to leave.

[Spixe]

I have yet to talk to the Dean/our uni's visa office about the situation, but I did talk to my current supervisor, who is actually a foreigner and has worked there for many years and is friends with the Dean, etc. I don't think he'd lie to me, but perhaps (and understandably so) he'd probably have more loyalty to the school than to me. He informed me that the school would not give me the letters I need to switch jobs, regardless of my situation, merely because I'm breaking contract. This is also regardless that I'd be leaving after the semester has ended and before nearly two months of winter break before a new semester begins. He states that since he would be the one hiring a new teacher to replace me, and he is going on vacation this winter break, that no one will be no one around to hire someone, the school will have to pay money to hire a temp or pay other teachers overtime, and they will not want to pay that, so they will not give me the papers because I would be creating a hassle + extra expenses for them as well.

The other school (my old job, the one who is willing to hire me in the other city) says they require the letters in order for them to change the visa to their schools name. Ah, I was also informed if they didn't give me the papers, a simple trip to HK wouldn't work either (for one reason or another, perhaps due to new visa restrictions in HK or something, not sure).

I was thinking the only alternative would be to quit, leave the country (go to the states for a week), process the other schools visa at the Chinese embassy in the US, and come back with the new visa. But I don't know if this could lead to other problems, such as what if the university doesn't cancel the visa as soon as I quit--you know how much time things take to get done around here, I could quit and leave to the US but they might not actually cancel the visa till months later, and then the other school couldn't push their visa paperwork... right? I really don't care about the money, I'd be more than happy to give up a months salary, which is what I expected to do in the first place, but I've heard our dean isn't the nicest of chaps and would cancel our visa and not give release papers just to spite a teacher who quits before contract.

On another note, I have no idea if this might be an option, but what if the uni does not fulfill contractual obligations? I'm constantly being paid late, and they just informed me today that we might not get paid for one to three weeks (when it was due today) due to it being a "busy month." Does a school not paying in time/paying late have anything to do with the contract? I don't believe it states anywhere that teachers must get paid their due on a certain date each month, but who knows, just a thought.

Like all of you said however, I hope and pray that a friendly respectful conversation with them can allow everyone to part terms on a satisfactory basis. I'm asking these questions now, however, to cover all ground, just in case they turn out to be not so friendly, what my other options are. Thanks so far for the advice.

edit: oh yeah, what is FAO anyway?

[dean_a_jones]

[w.melon56]

It is THIS simple...

If you have a legal, valid, SAFEA contract, then you can QUIT your job ANYTIME YOU WANT legally. Are you saying you did not read your contract before signing it ? The condition exists for you to quit your job for any reason and be subject to the pains and penalties of early termination - monetary fines.

So, I have to ask... Why haven't you just quit and paid the necessary penalties? That allows you to get a new job. Should your existing employer accept the money you pay them to leave early, then you are legally covered with the PSB should the employer still refuse to issue a termination or so-called 'release letter.'

What is more clear is that you are trying to find a way around your legal obligations (paying financial penalties). Pay the fine, move on, problem solved.

[Spixe]

Hrm, really? That easy? Well how do we know if we have a SAFEA contract? Also, there must be OTHER kinds of contracts as well, otherwise so many people would not have run into the same problem I am facing now, right? And so if it is not a SAFEA, then my problem still exists. If it is a SAFEA contract (I still don't even know what that means/is), then they can threaten to not give me release papers, but I would merely tell the PBS and they would get the papers for me in one way or another?

I'm happy to pay the fine, not trying to get around at all, I actually hoped it'd be as easy as that, I pay the penalty fee, they give me the papers, and we go our separate ways. I WANT this.

[ymmv]

If you have a Foreign Expert's Certificate, you have a SAFEA contract.

[Cyberkada]

I don't have a SAFEA contract... maybe I should start to worry...

in any case...

RUN, LUKE, RUN