Job Discussion Forums

[rogerwilco]

I have worked at several colleges and high schools in China, and in one way or another I have learned that in most of my classes the scores that I give the students aren't really counted in the students GPA.

So, what does happen to the scores that we give ?
Do the parents and students receive the scores ?
Are the scores given, but everyone knows that they aren't counted towards the GPA, or ?

I have tried asking the schools for further information , but have yet to receive a straight answer.

[7969]

Contrary to what might happen at other schools, our school doesn't change the scores that we give - once we enter them into the system they stay the way they are. As for whether or not they count towards GPA (I've never asked but I will), I'm just guessing but here I think they do. I say this because once the scores are available on the school website (usually a couple of days after the exam) I typically get inquiries from some of my students asking why their score was low (or lower than they expected). If the scores didn't mean anything I don't think they'd be too worried.

[Cyberkada]

[rogerwilco]

[The Great Wall of Whiner]

My experience is that the grades we give are often not the grades that the students get. I don't know how many friends working in colleges have been told to change their grades and give passing marks to their students, or the shock in seeing that students who do not even attend classes pass their courses. And I have countless former students now in college complaining how other students get better grades because "what they do" for their professors.

The foreign teacher is, by and large, an attraction for the college. A gimmick to explain the "higher than usual" tuition fees, a gimmick to attract applications, a gimmick to add prestige and face to the institute, and a gimmick which gives the school a more trusted academic standing in the eyes of the parents whose kids will attend.

In the crappier universities / colleges, parents are guaranteed that their kids will walk out in four years with a degree, no matter how lazy their son/daughter is. In the so-so places, wealthy families who grease the palms of the powers that be are guaranteed their little prince/princess will gain the paper required. Of course, the Chinese teachers all receive something for passing the students but the foreign teachers simply get told "you MUST pass those students" or their grades are simply changed without the foreigner even knowing about it.

In schools where your studies actually matter (Fudan and Peking immediately come to mind), you cannot pass your courses if the teacher does not pass you. This is where administration has less power over the faculty and the corruption can shift from the top of the tree down to the professors. I won't entertain the masses with some of the more tantalizing stories, but suffice to say everything is up for grabs. In these places, professors can and will be punished because the place needs to uphold the good reputation it has and also those who do the punishing see no rewards for them. Foreign professors here do actually matter, and their grades do count. Of course, there is far heavier scrutiny of the grades but one should expect that.

This is one of the many reasons why diplomas and degrees from Chinese universities and colleges are not recognized in the West.

If you are teaching at a college / university and the grades you hand out "matter", you are in a half-decent learning institute. Of course, the students who do poorly will still want to bump their grades up and some may come into your office and offer something without you even knowing it is an offer. Maybe they simply have no money and are appealing to your heart strings being pulled. Whatever the case, for the college kid to go to the foreign teacher with an offer is a lot rarer than going to the Chinese professor.

Giving an envelope of 500-1000 yuan is not uncommon for a passing grade. Larger amounts are also given when it gets desperate. Now imagine a small number (100 lets say) students giving their professor even a small amount (500 RMB) at Spring Festival. Want to know more about how Chinese professors and university administration end up with awesome cars, awesome holidays around the world, and awesome 2nd houses? Don't take my word for it; ask some recent college graduates here what they think.

So... what does happen to the scores that we give ...?

Probably get changed by whoever stands to benefit.

[MisterButtkins]

[Guerciotti]

The staff and CTs often remind me that my classes don't matter. Hey, at least they're consistent about something! Oral English doesn't matter? Writing doesn't matter? Don't think about it, your brain will explode.

Grades are posted on the department bulletin board.

So far none of my grades were changed, pending this semester.

I think this uni has a two tier grading system. The 'percent' grades (out of 100%) count toward their GPA and other grades (like my excellent, good, satisfactory, pass, fail) don't count. Try telling your competitive students that your grades don't count. Very entertaining.

If I wanted to be cynical, and I do, I would say our grades don't count to ensure the CTs can reserve the payoffs for the real grades. Not that that ever happens.

[Cyberkada]

[kev7161]

Of course I teach in a primary school so I can't compare my story to the college teachers out there, but . . .

Every mid-semester we send home a paper that shows how the student is doing so far in each of his English and Chinese classes (students have Chinese, Chinese Math, English Math, Language Arts, Science, and more). At the end of each semester, I'm given a little green book with a section I can record the grades for each English subject (in ink!) and leave a short comment. To date, THESE scores have never been changed as I've seen the same little green book semester after semester, year after year.

Now, if someone takes these scores and plugs them into a computer and presents a print out to parents and the scores have been changed, I'm not privy to that information.

However, it doesn't seem to matter if a student gets an A+ or an F in most/all of his subjects. He gets moved onto the same grade level anyway - - at least throughout primary school. To date, I've never been asked to change grades or been concerned about my job should "X" number of students fail. My school knows most students come from wealthy families and the school has been given a LOT of money for us to educate/babysit the children. So I will always do the best I can, hope for good results from a majority of the students, and try not to sweat about the lower-yielding ones. Honestly, I think they are under more pressure to pass their Chinese courses than my subjects.

[Miles Smiles]

Granted, few of us here are actually teachers, professors, educated educators, or professionals with proper qualifications to teach, judge, score students...

Does anyone have any figures to support this "fact"?

[steve b]

Who wrote that?

[Cyberkada]

[steve b]

I think it was Whistler. Maybe he was removed along with the post.

[creztor]

They are sucked into a black hole and never seen again.

[Non Sequitur]

I don't know for sure if my marks do actually appear in the GPA, or are massaged in other ways ie to keep gullible parents paying. I do know they are put up on the school intranet in the form I provide them. Beyond that...
What I can do though is ensure that the spread of marks across the class reflect the effort and achievement of individual students.
I have individual achievement slips for each student and after final marking I arrange the slips in order highest to lowest and spend a few minutes thinking if the order reflects what I experienced in class over the semester.
My school prepares student for front of house work in an industry and the tall good looking kids are put forward for the best jobs regardless of ability.
My approach is my way of saying to the students 'I know what you did and here's your reward'.