Job Discussion Forums

[PeterParvo]

Yes VS, I am just going on what I've heard.

[johnslat]

This is probably an improvement, in a weird sort of way. I mean, there have been a good number of cases of women suffering harassment from some male workers in such stores.

"Saudi Arabia: Only Women Can Work In Lingerie Stores

RIYADH, Saudi Arabia � Saudi Arabia said Monday it will begin enforcing a law that allows only females to work in women's lingerie and apparel stores, despite disapproval from the country's top cleric.

The 2006 law banning men from working in female apparel and cosmetic stores has never been put into effect, partly because of view of hard-liners in the religious establishment, who oppose the whole idea of women working where men and women congregate together, like malls.

Saudi women � tired of having to deal with men when buying undergarments � have boycotted lingerie stores to pressure them to employ women. The government's decision to enforce the law requiring that goes into effect Thursday.

The country is home to Islam's holiest site in the city of Mecca and follows an ultra-conservative form of the religion known as Wahhabism.

The kingdom's religious police, under the control of the Commission for the Promotion of Virtue and Prevention of Vice, enforce Saudi Arabia's strict interpretation of Islam, which prohibits unrelated men and women from mingling. Women and men in Saudi Arabia remain highly segregated and are restricted in how they are allowed to mix in public.

The separation of men and women is not absolute. Women in Saudi Arabia hold high-level teaching positions in universities and work as engineers, doctors, nurses and a range of other posts.

The strict application of Islamic law forced an untenable situation in which women, often accompanied by uncomfortable male relatives, have to buy their intimate apparel from men behind the counter.

Over the past several weeks, some women have already begun working in the stores. Although the decision affects thousands of men who will lose their sales jobs, the Labor Ministry says that over 28,000 women, many of them South Asian migrants, have already applied for the jobs.

Saudi's Arabia's most senior cleric, Sheik Abdul-Aziz Al Sheikh, spoke out against the Labor Ministry's decision in a recent sermon, saying it contradicts Islamic law.

"The employment of women in stores that sell female apparel and a woman standing face to face with a man selling to him without modesty or shame can lead to wrongdoing, of which the burden of this will fall on the owners of the stores," he said, urging store owners to fear God and not compromise on taboo matters."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/01/02/saudi-arabia-women-lingerie_n_1179386.html

[Demigod]

Interesting topic

[Demigod]

Veils are Sunna are they not?
It your choice to cover your face or not.
If women feel that she is fitna then they may cover
their faces. It is not required, only Hijabs that cover your hair
are required by Shaira law enforced mainly in Saudi Arabia alone.

I am sure that you all have seen Indonesians, Indian, Filapinas, Morrocans, Egyptian Muslimahs, Bosians etc. that only wear Hijabs.

I do agree with the fact that Jeddah and Riyadh are great locations for women, especially if you are single.

Just please do not let Islamaphobia and sheer assumptions hinder you from enjoying other parts of KSA, for example Yanbu.

I do respect that abaya limits alot of things, but keep in mind it helps with alot of things. Please remember that some local men lack maturity. The education is poor and when you mixed that up with a male dominated society you may encounter some monsters. So hey try to tolerate the abaya, educated the students as best you can and of course collect your pay. One year or two will pass fairly quickly. Try not to go against the grain so much, find a niche and just pace yourself as the months fly..stay safe and keep it strictly business

[johnslat]

Dear Demigod,

" . . . only Hijabs that cover your hair are required by Shaira law enforced mainly in Saudi Arabia alone."

"Muslims differ as to whether the hijab should be required on women in public, as it is in countries like Iran and Saudi Arabia . . . "

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hijab

That would seem to cover (so to speak) both Sunni and Shia.

Regards,
John

[veiledsentiments]

I believe he refers to "Sunnah" - as in rules outside of the Quran. Not a Sunni/Shia difference.

VS

[johnslat]

Dear VS,

Quite right - my mistake (it was VERY early in the morning .)

Regards,
John

[scjw]

Demigod, Thanks for your positive view on the subject of foreign women working in Saudi. We ask our students to think outside the box. As teachers we need to listen to our own advice.

As for women who are reading this forum and making a decision on whether they should teach in Saudi or ME you need to do your research outside Dave's ESL. More interesting views exit in cyber space about Saudi Arabia especially from Saudi citizens. Go on the Saudi Embassy website in your country to read about life and visa requirements; there are Middle East expat Facebook groups and LinkedIn groups. Also, Saudi women on Twitter tweeting with in KSA about female/human rights.

Unfortunately, in Dave's KSA discussions not enough women who worked in Saudi or currently there post. Could it be the majority are doing well and happy!? Ladies join discussions sans the bitterness and angst on other social media platforms. If you need help with a couple sites to get you started feel free to PM me.

Happy new year & cheers to me- a female - going to Saudi to teach.

Later 4 haters

[Badar Bin Bada Boom]

[BretHarte]

I can't wait to see her posts after scjw has been in Saudi. She's from the US, so she'll have an easy time of rainbows, unicorns and chocolates in the Kingdom of Well and Happy.

[scjw]

Point made.

Ladies, here is a link to Arab News, http://arabnews.com/, an English online paper covering Saudi and Middle East news. I just read an article about an art exhibition to promote Saudi artists. In the photo is a English teacher and 3 Saudi artists (2 males, 1 female): http://arabnews.com/saudiarabia/article558386.ece


My location is USA. I am not American.

[BretHarte]

If you're Muslim, you get a better chance. I'm not saying that in a cruel way, that's how it works. It's like having Saudis helped in front of you at stores and restaurants.

You'll learn once you're there, that articles and web sites are worth the pixels they're printed on. Same with opinions on the internet.

[johnslat]

Dear scjw,

I wish you all the best - I really do. There is, however, no way to anticipate what life will be like in Saudi, especially for a woman.

Before my wife went there, I played "Devil's Advocate," trying to prepare her for what she would experience. She took in all in with a smile, saying, "I can handle it."

About a week after arriving there, she came to me and complained, "Why didn't you TELL me it was going to be like this?"

You may love it there; you may not. Only time and experience on the ground will tell.

Regards,
John

[Gulezar]

Unfortunately, in Dave's KSA discussions not enough women who worked in Saudi or currently there post. Could it be the majority are doing well and happy!? Ladies join discussions sans the bitterness and angst on other social media platforms. If you need help with a couple sites to get you started feel free to PM me.

Happy new year & cheers to me- a female - going to Saudi to teach.

Later 4 haters

Could you be happy and doing well when you are:
locked into your compound
given a curfew of 8:00 pm
told not to go shopping by yourself
accosted by strange men who assume that you will prostitute yourself
not provided with any sports facilities
not allowed to communicate with your colleagues of the opposite sex
stared at by children
on a bus at which children throw stones
followed by secret police when you go shopping
There were happy moments in Saudi. The people I worked with were lovely, and some were crazy. Fatema Mernissi described in Dreams of Trespass that it is not the hudud (borders) that you see, but the one that you establish in your mind which are most oppressive. You may find yourself erecting walls soon enough.

Please keep us posted.

[BretHarte]

The sad thing is she won't keep us posted. It'd be nice and helpful, but I've found that most people who take that sort of attitude don't post what they learned.