Job Discussion Forums

[Mark]

Hi folks,

Just wondering how people are making out with respect to learning Mandarin, especially reading. Any success stores?

I'm an ESL teacher in Vancouver doing the Korea vs. Taiwan vs. Japan debate. I'm strongly leaning towards Japan and have started learning the language, but I'm still open to the other two. I'd consider mainland China, but I have student loans!

I know that learning Mandarin may not be terribly important in order to function in Taiwan, but learning the language would be important to me. My plan would be to spend 3 to 5 years in a country studying the language like a maniac, and then hopefully set myself up as a freelance translator (into English only, I've no doubt). I'm following the model of someone I know who runs a private translation service.

Any comments would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers,

Mark

[MissusFish]

Whichever country you choose, live in a small town. The fewer people speaking English around you the more you will pick up their language. I lived in "inaka" in Japan & learn tons after the first year. I've been in a medium sized city in Taiwan for the past two years & I've barely picked up any Mandarin.
Surprisingly, it was also easier to find Japanese classes in the countryside than it has been to find Mandarin classes here. Although, I think I could find someone to do a language exchange here if I looked hard enough.

I've lived and taught in all three countries you're considering and I prefer Japan. If you have questions I'd be happy to tell you about my experiences.

Good luck.

[Mark]

[Seth]

I studied Chinese at my uni and here in mainland China. Really, the tones and characters get easier as you get used to them. The tones are no different than memorizing which syllable to stress in an English word (or any other language) and the characters do have a method to the madness. Once you spot the patterns it becomes second nature to read them.

However, if you study Chinese in Taiwan, you'll learn the classical characters. The mainland government simplified many of the characters some decades ago in their bid to increase literacy. If you learn Taiwanese characters you may have difficulty reading modern mainland text. Given the mammoth size and increasing influence of the mainland, it may be more beneficial to learn the simplified characters if you want to have any kind of translation service.

[taiwan boy]

Seth makes an important point about simplifed/traditional characters, but once you learn one set it is pretty easy to learn the other. Personally I prefer traditional characters even though I am familiar with both (having lived in Taiwan and China). There are also some differences between the spoken language in Taiwan and China. These are not huge, but it is a good idea to be aware of them. If you have a good teacher in Taiwan she will be able to teach you some of the differences. It would also be a good idea to go and spend some time in China at some stage along the language learning path.

If you work hard at studying and practicing the language then the three to five year time frame you have given yourself is realistic. Acquiring spoken Chinese is not to difficult if you live in Taiwan and make an effort. Learning to read requires more hard work, but is achievable. Remember if you go to Japan you will have to learn Katakana and Hiragana as well as Kanji, so learning Chinese characters is no more (and perhaps less) daunting.

[arioch36]

While I agree that the mainland will become more and more dominate, I'm glad i started learning traditional characters first. Like Seth said, after a while you see patterns. I think it is easier to understand traditional first, and then simplified.
Also, depending on your purposes, knowing traditional characters is quite useful on the mainland, though my Chinese is still quite poor (spoken like a good Chinese student) Stores use traditional characters, I believe Hong Kong does??? And I think traditional characters will become more important in the future as Chinese people try to keep their identity

Some of my best language lessons have been on the train or at the local small restaurants

I had some websites, but I lost them. I have a pretty good book by the Cheng & Tsui Company..Integrated chinese

[wix]

I have been quite successful in learning spoken Mandarin since I began learning five years ago in Australia. I have spent over two years in Taiwan and China which has really enabled me to develop good fluency. Although I would say the more I know, the more I realise I don't know

I have not really made much effort to learn to read and write Chinese. I can read maps, signs, train and bus timetables and fill in forms, but I still can't read a newspaper article. I guess it takes discipline to learn to read and write Chinese and I don't have it. I have mainly learnt to speak by talking to friends and people on the street. This is a very easy way to learn, although I had lessons in the beginning which gave me a base to work from.

Learning to write is becoming less important these days as it is quite easy to enter Chinese on a computer by various methods. I would still spend some time practicing writing though as it helps reinforce the characters.

I think Taiwan is an excellent place to study Chinese. I have made a web page about it: Studying Chinese in Taiwan

[Mark]

Hi all,

Thanks for the further replies, and thanks, Wix, for the website.

Has anyone had the experience of learning kanji and then transferring that knowledge to the learning of the characters as they are used in Chinese? I've had Japanese speakers tell me that it's not very difficult for them to learn to read Chinese, but they have obviously have a much more intuitive understanding of the characters than I will probably ever develop.

Also, out of curiosity, how rare or common is it to meet someone who has developed a reading knowledge equivalent to that of a literate and educated native speaker?

Thanks again,

Mark

[wix]

Kanji is essentially the same character set as Chinese. The meanings of the characters in Kanji and Chinese will be the same, but the pronunciation will be very different!!

When I studied Chinese in Australia several of my classmates were Japanese. They studied Chinese because they thought it would be easy. Of course they could already read and write the Chinese characters, but they found learning to speak Chinese another thing altogether.

[Seth]

There's still a lot of simplified characters that are very simplified compared to the traditional ones. The 'me' in 'Shenme' for example, must have about 15 strokes for traditional but 3 for simplified. It's good to recognize them, but writing them, no way! Considering you need to be able to able to read and write about 10,000 or so characters to be considered fluent (or 6000, I don't remember), that's a lot of extra headache.

Have you ever tried reading an informal note scribbled by a Chinese? That's a whole different story.

[taiwan boy]

[TaoyuanSteve]

Well, I hope the previous posts have been of some assistance to you...

I come from Vancouver, too. Let me tell you Chinese writing will be a chore, a very big chore. Most long-term foreigners have learned to speak mandarin quite well, but not usually write it. Why? Chinese characters are not alphabetic. There is no system "per se" to them at all. It's strictly memorization. Yes, there are radicals blah, blah, blah. Really, though, there is no way to read a chinese character you have not seen before. You either recognize it, or you don't. Chinese characters, especially the traditional ones, are very hard to master. It will take years to learn reading and writing (the former skill being much easier than the latter). You might want to re-evaluate your translator plans, unless you are willing to spend a decade studying the language.

[Munchen]

Please go over to Japan and see my post under the topic Japanese language and translation, now on page 2 in that section.

[parrothead]

This is an old thread and I am reviving it rather than post an identical thread.

I am curious how well your Mandarin studies have progressed since you arrived in Taiwan. How have you been studying the language? Where? I am tossing around the idea of a stint working in Taiwan, but would consider it a year or two or three wasted if I didn't learn a bit of the language. Are you able to balance work and study? Or do you recommend studying the language for a few months before finding work?

Thanks!

[SanChong]