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MoggIntellect
Joined: 04 Apr 2003 Posts: 173 Location: Chengdu, P.R.China
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Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2003 1:55 pm Post subject: Marriage and ESL |
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Hi. I was wondering if anyone out there is married and working abroad in this field? I would also like to know if anyone is married and living apart from his/her spouse, and what you can say about it?
But more importantly, I would like to know what the people who are hiring want to see on a CV? Do you mention your marital status? Does it matter? Will you have more or less chance at a job with a ball n chain?
Feedback would be nice. |
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Wolf
Joined: 10 May 2003 Posts: 1245 Location: Middle Earth
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Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2003 2:07 pm Post subject: |
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In China some schools prefer to take couples. I hear it's similar in South Korea. A couple represents a more stable group than a single drifter. In Japan it's not frowned on either (although rarely sought as of last year). However, it's the best way (fast becoming the only way) to save money there. Live on one spouse's salry and put the other salry towards . . . whatever it is (loans, house, mortgage, credit card debt whatever.)
Mentioning it on a CV/application? If I were you (two) I'd just apply jointly to wherever - but I have no experience in this matter. Married people, stop arguing and help this guy/gal!
Kids is a whole other ballgame. Check the more ancient threads. |
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MoggIntellect
Joined: 04 Apr 2003 Posts: 173 Location: Chengdu, P.R.China
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Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2003 2:23 pm Post subject: |
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I'm afraid you misunderstand. My wife has nothing to do with ESL. I would be over there alone, if and when I obtaina position. So I was wondering, quite frankly, what the implications are, both personally and professionally. |
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Lucy Snow
Joined: 16 Jan 2003 Posts: 218 Location: US
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Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2003 5:36 pm Post subject: |
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As to its personal implicatons, really only you and your wife can decide that. Are you both fairly independent people? Can you trust each other? How long is the projected separation? If she joins you, what will she do while you're teaching ESL?
Professionally, it's hard to tell. My husband and I are both teachers, and we generally apply for positions at the same school, or at least in the same city. We've just been hired for jobs at the same college in Poland, and it seemed that the school liked the fact that we were married.
In Japan, when we arrived we weren't married. The only difference our subsequent marriage made was we were finally invited to his department head's home for dinner. Oh, and the ladies in the office would ask when we were going to start having children. |
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Gordon
Joined: 28 Jan 2003 Posts: 5309 Location: Japan
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Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2003 12:01 am Post subject: |
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I had the same question when I was applying for jobs too. I am married with a young child (wife is not in EFL but has the toughest job) and now we are living in Japan. With that said, I was always up front about my family. Can't really hide them anyway and wouldn't want to. If the school didn't want the extra complication of my dependents, then screw them, I wouldn't want to work for them anyways. I'm now working at a uni and am the first foreigner they've hired who had a family. I think they are happy they hired me, despite the extra costs for them(airfare and family allowance), and I try not to inconvenience them too much with my family. Besides, I'd like them to hire another teacher who has a family.
Tell them the truth, they will find out eventually and could be upset because you were untruthful. I would be if I was them. Sure some schools will close their doors, but there many who like the stability of a family as a previous poster said. I am so glad I have a family here, it would be so lonely and boring otherwise. |
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Glenski
Joined: 15 Jan 2003 Posts: 12844 Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
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Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2003 4:34 am Post subject: |
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Quote: |
I would like to know what the people who are hiring want to see on a CV? Do you mention your marital status? Does it matter? Will you have more or less chance at a job with a ball n chain? |
Where are you thinking of going? Your "ball and chain" might be looked down upon in certain countries.
Also, if an employer reads that you are married, he will obviously want to know if you are bringing your spouse. Fair question. If you are not, the next fair question in an interview is how you two plan to get along without each other. Obviously, an employer doesn't want a new teacher bailing out if he needs his spouse.
In some cases, whether you are married also determines your salary. Some jobs in Japan pay you more if you have a family to support, for example.
I would suspect that some employers would feel a married person is more stable/reliable than a single one.
If you DO plan to bring your spouse, the employer will also have to consider housing. That is, will single housing be sufficient for two people, or will he have to provide something larger? (I know you aren't planning on bringing your wife, just pointing this out for others.) |
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scot47
Joined: 10 Jan 2003 Posts: 15343
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Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2003 6:31 am Post subject: long distance |
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Long distance relationships are not easy. Every couple is different but the problems and dangers are pretty clear. How would you cope when you discovered that your partner was involved with someone else ? Can you handle adultery or cuckoldry ? |
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Gordon
Joined: 28 Jan 2003 Posts: 5309 Location: Japan
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Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2003 8:52 am Post subject: |
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Sorry I misunderstood you earlier, your family isn't coming who you. Why not? It is a lot of fun being overseas together. Like I said before, tell your employers up front. The fact that you are married adds a new dimension to who they are hiring. At home, it isn't any of their business, but it is when they are sponsoring your visa. |
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Roger
Joined: 19 Jan 2003 Posts: 9138
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Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2003 9:44 am Post subject: |
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Forgive me if I am misinterpreting you, but you present your case in rather ambiguous terms...
If your intention is to maintain your married status at home while two-timing abroad, note that in China you could get burnt for this.
Schools generally frown on relationships between unmarried partners, the more so if they find out you hid from them the mention of your marriage.
It can easily cost you your visa, job and a lot of money, not to mention your face! |
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cheryl
Joined: 01 Apr 2003 Posts: 119 Location: Japan
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Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2003 10:46 am Post subject: I hope this helps a bit... |
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MoggIntellect,
I'm not quite in your situation but not far from it. I just got to Japan a little over a month ago and left my fiancee behind in Canada. I don't know about how employers look upon the "single or not" issue but i can share my experience with you.
I think Lucy was dead on when she asked...
Quote: |
As to its personal implicatons, really only you and your wife can decide that. Are you both fairly independent people? Can you trust each other? How long is the projected separation? |
Me and my fiancee are both fairly independant people (we don't need to see or talk to each other every single day even though we may want to), and we both trust each other (we don't go nuts if the other has forgotten to call the other. There is, afterall, a 13 hr difference between here and canada.) What i found the most important was to figure out a way to communicate with your wife at home. I bought a laptop before i came to Japan and now have cable internet, with speakers. Daniel on the other hand has cable internet, speakers, and a web cam. We talk everyday which makes me feel as though i have not really left him behind. If you want more information about the "relationship" side of your question, email me. Also, i might be of some help if you're thinking of the JET program (that's what i'm on).
Cheryl |
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MoggIntellect
Joined: 04 Apr 2003 Posts: 173 Location: Chengdu, P.R.China
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Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2003 11:57 am Post subject: |
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Roger wrote: |
Forgive me if I am misinterpreting you, but you present your case in rather ambiguous terms...
If your intention is to maintain your married status at home while two-timing abroad, note that in China you could get burnt for this.
Schools generally frown on relationships between unmarried partners, the more so if they find out you hid from them the mention of your marriage.
It can easily cost you your visa, job and a lot of money, not to mention your face! |
I don't know how you took my statements to mean a flat-out intention of adulterous behaviour, but that wasn't it at all.
I was merely wondering first and foremost what employers want to see on a CV, and their attitudes regarding marriage, especially a person who is married and not intending to bring his spouse.
Thanks for all your responses, they have given me a lot to think about. I must mention that I have been apart from my wife before (year long foreign exchange) for an extended period of time, so I'm not completely new to the side of the separation.
I agree it would always be ideal for one to be with one's spouse at every opportunity, however, we don't live in a time when that is always feasible.
Going back to the professional side of it, I guess I feel that if I don't have any intention of bringing my spouse, I have no obligation to say that I am married, as it has no impact on my ability to take a position and fulfill a contract. Let's face it, I'm guessing (since I have yet to teach abroad), that one's environment at the school has more of an impact than one's marital status. If you work for and with a group of people who make your job a nightmare, that would send me running more quickly. |
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Glenski
Joined: 15 Jan 2003 Posts: 12844 Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
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Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2003 2:31 pm Post subject: |
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Quote: |
I guess I feel that if I don't have any intention of bringing my spouse, I have no obligation to say that I am married, |
So, how are you proposing to answer the question in an interview? Some countries feel it is ok to ask such a question. |
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shmooj
Joined: 11 Sep 2003 Posts: 1758 Location: Seoul, ROK
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Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2003 2:35 pm Post subject: |
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Browsing through some job ads for the British Council recently I noticed in the small print that they admitted finding it hard in some countries to get visas for people who were "living together" as it were and not married.
There may also be implications for places like Saudi where you get allowances for accompanying spouses and they expect them to be married and not simply partners or common law spouses. I can image you getting into a bit of trouble there.
Generally though I couldn't manage abroad without my wife. She is like bringing my home with me. Without her I would probably immerse myself in work and not know when to get a life. She keeps me sane (somewhat) and with her I can share all the joys and sorrows of life in a foreign culture.
I went to work in India for six months single and, when we got married, I told her she just had to come to India or she'd never understand me. We went and worked for six months together and it was so precious to share it. I can't imagine what a gulf there would have been between us if I had gone through it all and she had been sitting in a suburb in Scotland or somewhere. Doesn't bear thinking about
So, I personally feel that doing the EFL thing with a spouse adds a lot of zest and excitement to your marriage and means, if and when you ever have to go home, you can have your own private chuckle about times past and how wierd home really is when all around you are boring old farts who've never been further from home than the supermarket. |
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MoggIntellect
Joined: 04 Apr 2003 Posts: 173 Location: Chengdu, P.R.China
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Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2003 5:39 pm Post subject: |
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Glenski wrote: |
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I guess I feel that if I don't have any intention of bringing my spouse, I have no obligation to say that I am married, |
So, how are you proposing to answer the question in an interview? Some countries feel it is ok to ask such a question. |
I would not lie. I'm not saying I would be rude and say something stupid like, "none f your business," however, I am merely saying that I would not offer this information unless it is solicited. And if it were, I would be truthful. |
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MELEE
Joined: 22 Jan 2003 Posts: 2583 Location: The Mexican Hinterland
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Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2003 6:35 pm Post subject: |
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I must say that as somone who hires teachers, I'd be warry of a married person not bringing their spouce. If it said on your resume, married, then in the interview, I would ask what your spouce would do here, as we're in a small town without of lot of social options. Then if you said, that she was not comming with you, I'd jump to one or two conculsions and maybe wonder about your stability, this is not to say that I wouldn't hire you if you were an otherwise strong candidate, but I'd expect you to otherwise convince me 1) that you'd stay at least a year and 2) that you're not emotionally unstable (I might assume you are going through a break up). We've had sevel married teachers, only one has not brought his/her spouce and ended up leaving early because of it.
Best of luck,
Last edited by MELEE on Fri Sep 19, 2003 4:37 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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