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spiral78
Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 11534
Location: On a Short Leash
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 Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2015 8:43 pm Post subject: |
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CNN is now reporting that 100 of the other students at the school are protesting the fact that the officer was fired.
This clearly isn't a black-and-white case in any respect. |
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johnslat
Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 13859
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA
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| Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2015 9:08 pm Post subject: |
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"About 100 students at a South Carolina high school walked out of class briefly Friday to show ... Spring Valley High School has a current enrollment of 2,059. students." That's about 20%.
Well, nearly 1 in 5 Americans Suffers From Mental Illness - of course, that's just a coincidence. 
What to my mind is black and not white is the way the deputy "handled" (or perhaps "manhandled" would be more suitable) the situation.
Regards,
John |
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gregory999
Joined: 29 Jul 2015
Posts: 372
Location: 999
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| Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2015 9:13 pm Post subject: |
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| spiral78 wrote: |
| This clearly isn't a black-and-white case in any respect. |
A recent study by Columbia Law professor Kimberlé Crenshaw shows that black girls are punished more quickly and more harshly than any student demographic, and the Spring Valley incident aligns with that information. The student left the situation in handcuffs and under arrest, which could have lifelong consequences.
"Like others interviewed, [Joshua Pechthalt, president, California Federation of Teachers] said disruptive behavior was often a sign of problems at home. Instead of confronting students in the classroom, Pechthalt said, he would try to speak with them out of class or steer them to one of the school's mental health professionals.
" 'Kids are very closed; they're not going to tell you that their parents had a big fight or their cousin was shot at first,' he said. 'I was lucky that I had a lot of resources. I'm not sure many schools have them anymore.' "
http://www.npr.org/sections/codeswitch/2015/10/30/452955025/teachers-weigh-in-on-video-of-black-student-dragged-out-of-classroom-by-white-co |
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AGoodStory
Joined: 26 Feb 2010
Posts: 738
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| Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2015 10:23 pm Post subject: |
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| johnslat wrote: |
"About 100 students at a South Carolina high school walked out of class briefly Friday to show ... Spring Valley High School has a current enrollment of 2,059. students." That's about 20%.
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John, I'm glad you teach English and not math! 100 is what % of 2,059? (Hint: Slightly less than 5%.)
Does this make your point four times stronger?  |
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buravirgil
Joined: 23 Jan 2014
Posts: 967
Location: Jiangxi Province, China
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| Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2015 11:10 pm Post subject: |
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| spiral78 wrote: |
| I think johnslat's addressed the question of 'what to do' quite clearly. |
Try not to bait other members. Try to not to read selectively. More than one member addresses an issue of which they don't have to speculate about what they would do, but describe what they've collaboratively executed and experienced.
No, John, I'm not surprised, and I'm unsure why you'd assert otherwise. Have you never taught Sylvia Plath's poems? 1984? The Lottery? The War Prayer? Differences of opinion are a healthy character of a republic; It's expected and respected. But on a forum of teachers I'll assert specificity and clarity.
Between 2004-05, I addressed the same issues on a large teachers' forum in Los Angeles where the trend of "safety" officers began (and NY). I was gobsmacked it was not more resisted. So, perhaps I'm more desensitized than yourself. One of its "centers" is with what helplessness teachers feel in terms of broader social issues and it is a divisive topic among teachers-- expectations about teaching skills versus the "social work" of "dysfunctional" families. Teachers venting in lounges was equal parts informative and alarming. At the time, my concern was an issue of how "safety" officers would react to a rich source of speculation and "witness". Because it's an M.O. of the police-- they might only react to "evidence" (though it's too often selectively acknowledged, but that's another issue.) |
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johnslat
Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 13859
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA
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| Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2015 11:35 pm Post subject: |
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Dear A Good Story
Well, math has never added up for me. Thanks for the correction (which, I think, does make my point stronger).
Dear buravirgil,
Well, you called it a "patent abuse" that spiral condemned, but it's a "patent (evident or obvious) abuse" only to some/many. On the social media, some/many state that she got what she deserved. So, why would you mock spiral for condemning what some/many are praising?
You are coming across as being very condescending - but likely that's your intention. I just don't see why.
Regards,
John |
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buravirgil
Joined: 23 Jan 2014
Posts: 967
Location: Jiangxi Province, China
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| Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2015 11:36 pm Post subject: |
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| gregory999 wrote: |
| spiral78 wrote: |
| This clearly isn't a black-and-white case in any respect. |
A recent study by Columbia Law professor Kimberlé Crenshaw shows that black girls are punished more quickly and more harshly than any student demographic, and the Spring Valley incident aligns with that information. The student left the situation in handcuffs and under arrest, which could have lifelong consequences.
"Like others interviewed, [Joshua Pechthalt, president, California Federation of Teachers] said disruptive behavior was often a sign of problems at home. Instead of confronting students in the classroom, Pechthalt said, he would try to speak with them out of class or steer them to one of the school's mental health professionals.
" 'Kids are very closed; they're not going to tell you that their parents had a big fight or their cousin was shot at first,' he said. 'I was lucky that I had a lot of resources. I'm not sure many schools have them anymore.' "
http://www.npr.org/sections/codeswitch/2015/10/30/452955025/teachers-weigh-in-on-video-of-black-student-dragged-out-of-classroom-by-white-co |
Excellent cite because it speaks to larger contexts and brings to bear how little funding there is in regard to the support staff teachers are given. |
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buravirgil
Joined: 23 Jan 2014
Posts: 967
Location: Jiangxi Province, China
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| Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2015 11:43 pm Post subject: |
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| johnslat wrote: |
Dear buravirgil,
Well, you called it a "patent abuse" that spiral condemned, but it's a "patent (evident or obvious) abuse" only to some/many. On the social media, some/many state that she got what she deserved. So, why would you mock spiral for condemning what some/many are praising?
You are coming across as being very condescending - but likely that's your intention. I just don't see why.
Regards,
John |
It's not my intention. I don't have an intention about how I "come across".
I don't view Spiral's condemnation in terms of social media, but the thread.
And please cite how I've mocked Spiral.
Reviewing, the only interpretation of such might be my mocking any opinion the officer's relationship with a black woman is evidence racial components are absent the issue.
Mocking Spiral, the person-- well, I'd go after her liberal use of adverbals to position an assertion-- if I didn't admire it so much, but you gotta love what you satirize, in my opinion. |
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wangdaning
Joined: 22 Jan 2008
Posts: 3154
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| Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2015 11:52 pm Post subject: |
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It goes like this:
1) force all children into schools
2) teach them crap
3) put down any dissenters
Years later
4) employ enforcers of your education model
When asked in high school why I suddenly started to be a good student I simply said I don't like people who talk bs and want to go to university. I wish I had realized university was just bs on another level. |
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buravirgil
Joined: 23 Jan 2014
Posts: 967
Location: Jiangxi Province, China
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| Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2015 12:02 am Post subject: |
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| wangdaning wrote: |
It goes like this:
1) force all children into schools
2) teach them crap
3) put down any dissenters
Years later
4) employ enforcers of your education model
When asked in high school why I suddenly started to be a good student I simply said I don't like people who talk bs and want to go to university. I wish I had realized university was just bs on another level. |
That's a little clearer to me...
Along the lines of Einstein's distinctions of knowledge and imagination or Paul Simon's Kodachrome...
When I think back / On all the crap I learned in high school / It's a wonder / I can think at all |
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johnslat
Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 13859
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA
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| Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2015 12:09 am Post subject: |
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Dear buravirgil,
If you don't have any purpose/intention in your posts as to how readers interpret them, why bother making them?
As for "mocking" - I see this "Condemning a patent abuse is what exactly? Noteworthy?" as mocking.
But since you have no intentions in your posts as to how your words come across, I apologize for assuming you had.
There are those on this thread for whom the deputy's behavior was not patent abuse.
Condemning his behavior may not be "noteworthy" - but then, maybe it wasn't spiral's intention to make a noteworthy statement.
Maybe he has no intentions, either.
I do, though.
Regards,
John |
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buravirgil
Joined: 23 Jan 2014
Posts: 967
Location: Jiangxi Province, China
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| Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2015 12:38 am Post subject: |
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| johnslat wrote: |
Dear buravirgil,
If you don't have any purpose/intention in your posts as to how readers interpret them, why bother making them?
As for "mocking" - I see this "Condemning a patent abuse is what exactly? Noteworthy?" as mocking.
But since you have no intentions in your posts as to how your words come across, I apologize for assuming you had.
There are those on this thread for whom the deputy's behavior was not patent abuse.
Condemning his behavior may not be "noteworthy" - but then, maybe it wasn't spiral's intention to make a noteworthy statement.
Maybe he has no intentions, either.
I do, though.
Regards,
John |
(1) No one on this thread has not qualified their opinion as disapproving of the officer's actions. Not one.
(2) An accounting of a readership's interpretation isn't a paramount concern. My intention is to identify and argue issues that you now eclipse.
(3) I apologize for incorrectly identifying Spiral's gender. I make a practice of they/their and failed to do so.
(4) Mocking an opinion is not mocking a person. Your conflation of them is a serious accusation.
About Noteworthy...I'm disappointed that baiting forum members from discussions on other threads is an issue neither Spiral or yourself have acknowledged while affirming another's opinions about much other than the issues. Your assertions on decorum are selective. |
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johnslat
Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 13859
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA
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| Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2015 1:17 am Post subject: |
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Dear buravirgil,
1. At least one thought the deputy shouldn't have been fired, so it would seem that poster didn't deem the deputy's behavior as patent abuse.
2. Intention may not be your concern, but it's one of mine. And I think your saying that I am eclipsing your identifying and arguing is rather an amusing hyperbole.
3. I'm sure spiral is not at all offended by your mis-identification.
4. If you truly believe that mocking someone's opinion is not something that people take personally, I'd like to move to your universe.
Regarding your "Noteworthy," I have no idea, really, what you're referring to. Maybe spiral might, but not I. Could you provide a specific example?
Regards,
John |
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cassava
Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 175
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| Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2015 1:26 am Post subject: |
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| spiral78 wrote: |
| There's a bit more to it than this article tells. The guy's superior officer says he has been in a long-term relationship with a black woman, so it's unlikely that this was race-based |
This argument is nonsense. There are all kinds of examples in social history of white racists having long-term sexual relationships with women of color. The well known case of the vicious segregationist, Strom Thurmond, who served for forty-eight years as a Senator from South Carolina is instructive. He had a long-term relationship with an African-American woman, Carrie Butler, and had a child with her, even as he ruthlessly oppressed people of her ethnicity. There are countless similar stories in the glorious history of Amerika.
Comparable narratives also pervade the history of those nice Canadians. Many of the Euro-Canadian men who mercilessly persecuted aboriginal people had extended carnal liaisons with native women.
A careful analysis of the history of Europeans in places like South Africa and Australia reveal the same kinds of patterns.
It seems clear that these sexual associations were marked by a great deal of exploitation, cynicism and hypocrisy on the part of the men. It is also quite likely that these qualities are endemic in the personality of the policeman in the present case.
What is distressing in the situation under review is that a girl who had recently lost her mother was treated in such a barbaric manner by ignorant people. |
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wangdaning
Joined: 22 Jan 2008
Posts: 3154
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| Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2015 1:38 am Post subject: |
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Was arrested at 8 years old from school and lost valedictorian to a girl who had her baby our last year of high school. Funny, our whole English class was allowed to skip out and go see her in the hospital after the birth. In the end school has taught me that school is stupid. Only useful skill I ever learned was Chinese and Spanish. Other stuff was just silly crap. I remember my politics and history teacher in HS, a great guy, just let me and my friend teach about US and Latin American history. He wouldn't dare go where we went, but it had to be said. Quite a lively debate after our talks, but none of what we said was to be learned in school.
When I was younger I hung out around the high school. Students were pretty much allowed to do their thing on lunch breaks, smoke (cigarettes and weed) and all was fine. By the time I got to high school police were patrolling, they were busting people for anything. The one time I visited my hometown after going to university the cops had staked out my friends place and came up on me and another friend for even visiting the place. |
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