Job Discussion Forums

oprah · Joined: 26 Apr 2003 Posts: 382

This is my second year in China, and I am now considering mexico. I only work 16 or 20 hours a week, does that apply in mexico, I am seeing 40 hours a week on some of these postings??

moonraven · Joined: 24 Mar 2004 Posts: 3094

It depends on the job. In some language schools you could end up being in class 40 hours a week. In elementary, junior high and high schools you would probably teach between 24 and 30 class hours. Universities are a mixed bag, as if you are not full time you are only paid for the class hours you teach. If you are full time you will probably teach 15 to 20 class hours per week. This is a rough guideline, and the panorama of jobs is rife with exceptions.

MELEE · Posted: Fri May 28, 2004 3:09 pm Post subject:

I just want to expand on Moonraven's comment on 15-20 as full time at universities. More and more universities around the country, are going to a 40 work week for professors, but the teaching time is still 15 (or 10) to 20 hours a week. But the professors are expected to be on campus 40 hours a week, to do all their planning, grading, and course development on campus and hold office hours for students. This has come about in response to the Autonomous universities in the country where aparently you could find a prof on campus if your life depened on it!

I've been told that other countries in other parts of the world also work on this type of system.

The Menace · Joined: 05 May 2003 Posts: 54 Location: Shanghai

Oprah,

I�m in similar situation and have been studying the Mexico card for some time.
From what I�ve sussed, Mexico appears a little tougher all round; work more hours for less pay (bang for the buck factor seem better in the PRC).
I don�t know about your experience in China, but I was really taken care of. I don�t get the sense that the schools are as fostering in Mexico, paperwork, housing etc. But that�s just an impression.

On the other hand, you can�t get a decent chicken fajita in China and as you know Mandarin is no picnic to learn.

moonraven · Joined: 24 Mar 2004 Posts: 3094

No, you can't expect to be taken care of in Mexico. On an earlier thread I believe I wrote some things about how foreigners inspire resentment--and expecting special treatment is a good way to start that negative dynamic moving down the track really quickly. Another way is receiving special treatment and not giving back to the community more than you received from it. ESL teachers can easily fall into "parasite" mode.

If having the same working conditions, salary, benefits, etc. that you have in one country is that important to you, stay there. Don't expect standardization among cultures--the concept of multiculturalism extends to work situations.

delacosta · Joined: 14 Apr 2004 Posts: 325 Location: zipolte beach

In no way should anyone expect any type of special treatment when coming to work in Mexico. Be prepared in fact for a certain degree of resentment bordering on hostility from some quarters. Not that this is guaranteed to happen but it is a possibility. English represents the good ol' you know who and that represents a history of domination in all its ugly aspects. It's up to you to prove yourself as an individual who is not representative of this (continuing) legacy. I'm Canadian and so have found that I don't have it as difficult as the Americans do.
Furthermore do not expect things to flow like they do in your country, cuz it aint gonna happen. Getting angry, insulting, demanding, etc will only worsen the situation and basically you'll end up stewing in your own juices.
Come with an open mind and just let the magic of this country and her people settle in. Soon you may find that your heart has opened to all the warmth and beauty that makes Mexico such a charming and wonderful place to live in. If you can really penetrate this deeply you will see that despite continual injustice and what appears to be chaos, Mexico seems to exist in a state of continual grace. The spirit of the people has never been broken.

moonraven · Joined: 24 Mar 2004 Posts: 3094

Thanks for your wisdom, T!

MELEE · Posted: Fri May 28, 2004 5:57 pm Post subject: Re: special treatment

The Menace · Joined: 05 May 2003 Posts: 54 Location: Shanghai

Moonraven,
You make if sound like being taken care of is somehow unsavory. (I may be reading into it and it�s tough to detect the tone of your voice through this machine, so, sorry if I�ve misread you)
The school I worked for in China gave me special treatment because they were good hosts and I had something they wanted, I could teach English classes for them. I was the oil that kept their machine running (their money making machine). Keep your employees happy and they do good work for you. Pretty basic management 101 skills, I think.
My local shop keeper gave me special treatment because I'm just a dumb foreigner and cause I bought lots of beer from him and he got to laugh at my Chinese every day.
Was there resentment? Yes, by local teachers mostly since we got paid more than twice what they got paid, but they never let on. That would be considered rude. However, by western standards I was being paid peanuts, you don�t become a TEFL teacher for the money.
I�m not saying that we should expect nor deserve special treatment when we go teach in other countries. But why go someplace where you�re not wanted.
If you are willing to hire me I will assume you want me to be there.

And as guests we have an obligation to respect our hosts, be polite, look around, see what fork to uses to eat the salad, nod and smile a lot and soak in the culture.

MELEE · Posted: Fri May 28, 2004 7:54 pm Post subject:

moonraven · Joined: 24 Mar 2004 Posts: 3094

Menace,

Unsavory? Hmmmm. Hadn't considered that possibility.

I haven't expected anyone to take care of me since I was a child. A small child.

One of the reasons I like living in Mexico is because I am pathologically independent. Boredom is the single biggest stressor for me--and life anywhere in Macondo, because it never is exactly what it seems to be, is always ready to surprise us. Maybe you should read Cien a�os de soledad before you think about living in Latin America. And Pedro P�ramo. Comala stops at about the latitude of Zihuatanejo, and Macondo North begins....

Good luck!

delacosta · Joined: 14 Apr 2004 Posts: 325 Location: zipolte beach

Heya Menace
You seem to have the somewhat anoying habit of completely negating any advice that doesn't appeal to you. Why ask in the first place?
I think that you would have a difficult time adjusting down here, based on your responses so far. Just a hunch I have...

The Menace · Joined: 05 May 2003 Posts: 54 Location: Shanghai

Heya??? I'll assume that's a generic substitute for Mr.

Sorry to annoy you. I guess all that resentment and hostility you�re experiencing is affecting your tolerance of others.
I don�t think I was asking any questions on this thread, just giving my opinion, which I assume is permitted.

In the past week since I�ve been posting a fair bit, I�ve receive a surprising number of private messages from people who say they don�t post out of fear of being attacked. This puzzled me at first but I�m beginning to get the picture.

If this is a private club where groupthink is compulsory I�ll gladly take my leave. As I mentioned earlier, why stay somewhere if your not wanted.

�Assassination is the extreme form of censorship."
George Bernard Shaw

Gringo Greg · Posted: Sat May 29, 2004 6:43 am Post subject:

Think carefully about Mexico. I am oging back because of better opportunties, not neccessarily in the teaching sector. I think it is a tough gig teaching in Mexico. I think if you are qualified and are willing to make a long temr committment, you can do great in Mexico. It surely offers that advantage over China, a place where you will always be a foreigner and forever relegated to English teaching for peanuts.

I think if a teacher just wants to go to a foreign country and do some work as an English teacher, live on those earnings and then head back home after a year, Mexico might not be the best choice.

moonraven · Joined: 24 Mar 2004 Posts: 3094

Menace,

I beg to differ with you, as you have asked a number of questions on several threads of this forum--and some of us assumed that they were not rhetorical questions but that you wanted a bit of information and/or advice from those of us who have been living and working in Mexico for a number of years. That's just fine, as that's one of the reasons that this forum exists. As for giving opinions, the forum also exists for that--but your opinions seem to be generally on the order that we don't know what we're talking about, and I agree with delacosta that your habit of negating any information that you don't want to consider is getting to be really annoying.

I also think that your motives for talking about job and salary offers are suspect, and show both a lack of sensitivity and a big dose of immaturity--especially since you are well aware that a number of ESL teachers who post on this thread are living--happily, I might add--in Mexico on considerably less than what you are bragging about being offered.