Job Discussion Forums

[simon_porter00]

I appreciate that I'll come across as a 'billy big bollocks'/or other idiot as posting this, but it isn't my intention.

I made a few new year's resolutions this year:
1) do 100 push ups in one go (completed as of last week)
2) not visit this forum for a year to see if anything has changed

Due to trying to find a teacher in Poznan for a student a month or two back, I had to come back on here and then used my train travels as an excuse to pop in and have a look around and then sadly, became hooked again.

Is there any point to this forum any more? (The Polish one specifically). From my limited research, hardly anyone new has appeared and most those that have (quite rightly) have been shouted down and not come back leaving the same old faces, having the same old arguments; and very often those faces aren't even in Poland anymore.

I shut down my website regarding helping new teachers find jobs/giving them info at the beginning of the year as I'm not in the school teaching game any more and simply don't have the contacts / resources to help nor the time as we've had a second child. But one thing that I did notice is that more and more people were getting in contact with me regarding positions/needing help. People are still interested in coming to Poland to teach/live - this much was made very clear to me.

This 'interest' is not shown on this board. On this board, you can only see stagnation. What I mean by this is a total lack of movement/development. People obviously come here (because google leads them this way) but if they view they clearly don't post. This makes this board redundant.

The messages from this board (90%+ of the anyway) can be summed up:
anything less then a zloty per hour is pointless
if you work for a school you're a mug, or will be mugged
Subjectively, life is expensive or cheap (and we will argue for pages about this)
there is no career development
there's no point working anywhere else outside of the main cities or even Warsaw.

Whilst these vaguely are true (as experience tells us), they are also a gross oversimplification. There are 100's of schools in Poland which can't make the first point but given their location means that due to the cost of living you're actually better off than in Warsaw. But the message that people see is one of overwhelming negativity.

Negativity = a closed audience = stagnation = nothing new/contributory = redundancy.

Now, in some respects, this is not our fault - if someone really wanted to add something they would. But, if you go to a party where everyone else seems to know each other it's difficult to butt in particularly if they're infighting.

I personally believe the Polish market is a good one of you're a good teacher. You can live here well, have a family, have a car (or two), and have a holiday. You can be well-off, if not rich if you're ambitious and have drive - the market is in many areas extremely under exploited and there is room for a lot more teachers in the whole of the country. I am in my mid 30s now and am not scared about the next 30 years. My mortgages will be paid off by the time my eldest goes to university (18 years). If my employers were to boot me out, it won't be long before I'm earning the same amount of cash again - it really is easy come easy go.

This board doesn't reflect my views very well and whilst I'm not saying it's streets paved with gold, there are streets, they are paved and if you work hard there is enough gold (sorry for abusing an Irish maxim about going to New York).

So, is there any point to this forum? In my opinion - no. Is there a point to such forums? yes - a quick search on the internet will find Polish forums (whilst not to everyone's taste) are booming - I don't go on those either btw. And my website was getting more and more hits from nearly 3/4 of the globe - so I know there is interest out there.

I'll come back to the forum - I'm vain you see - but I don't think it'll be any different in another 6 months/year.

[sparks]

Agreed. I don't think there is one new (let's say arrived in the last 2 years) teacher on here. It's either ones who have come and left or moved on to something other than teaching, or ones who have been here for a while and, as far as I can tell, aren't that bad off. I suppose that from those represented, Poland is actually a nice place to be. Either you eventually move on to better places with better jobs, The Gulf, Japan, back home (thus making Poland an ideal place to start, as no other first job guarantees promotion) or you stay and move up and become a voice of positivity and hope on these boards.

So.... Come to Poland everyone! Either you will improve you life here and stop complaining or eventually you will go somewhere else and start earning loads of cash.

[dragonpiwo]

Or flit between the desert and Poland.

Been back a month now and am loving it. That said, even though I've only been out once, I've spent a lot somehow.

[simon_porter00]

I get the feeling it would be well worth getting a documentary crew to follow you round to find out where the cash goes

[dragonpiwo]

Rent, bills, child support, care for a sick parent, new passport and a mountain bike for the missus. (9000Zl).

The rest has been in Zabka and Biedronka and cigarettes. We've been out once to a party and once to the Indian at Malta (which was dreadful). Most days I go biking.

Off to the opera in Krakow this weekend, a wedding gift. I really can't wait (not).

It would be a pretty dull docusoap.

[Master Shake]

It's great to have you back, Simon, but I don't follow your story:

You realize this forum is pointless, so you make a resolution to avoid it.

Through chance, you end up visiting this forum again (call it a Dave's relapse).

You start a thread about how there is no point to this forum.



As for the lack of new posters, new posters do exist. Most of them start a thread or ask a question, post a few replies, and then disappear forever.

If you've ever observed the views count for threads, there are quite a lot of people lurking who don't post. Perhaps they are afraid of the backlash from the usual suspects were they to post. Or, maybe most the lurkers are using this site for information and prefer to remain anonymous.

[wojbrian]

Why should new people post?

It becomes a big pissing contest of who is right and then it goes off topic of what they originally asked.

[simon_porter00]

**EDIT - the original post was not complete, now finished**

Hi Shake,
Hope you've not been over indulging on the sushi.

The resolution was more about saving time and seeing if anything would change, but I'm splitting hairs.

Everyone, of course, has the right to post but your post rather sums up the whole problem for me. You're in Japan, Dynow in the States, dragonpiwo works in Libya but comes back to Poland, and there are a few of us in Poland.

Of those in Poland, I've not been in the school teaching game/private market for years, DD has a desk job etc.

Before you went to Japan, you were at the BC for years as was I. The BC hardly being representative of the main teaching market.

The point i'm trying to make is how much relevancy to the real teaching market (the aim of this board) do we have? Cost of living, yes; how to teach, yes; teaching however?

Yet 'we' dominate the board, this in my view shows how redundant this board has become. The figure that's often quoted on here is 1zl per minute - is that still the case? How do I know? As I've said I've been out of the game for ages.

We all know that 1zl per hour can't be had anywhere else in Poland but that doesn't stop it being treated as the measuring stick for the whole of Poland which of course is a nonsense - are you really going to get 1zl an hour in Rzeszow for example - I doubt it. But people reading the board may then have unrealistic expectations when they could get an offer from a perfectly good school for a lot less.

The one 'truth' on this board is this if you want to stay in Poland:
Get here, work the school's market for a year or two, accept the pay, in that time build contacts and look for opportunities, then find yourself a high paying niche and more than likely start your own business as a sole trader.

The high paying niche might simply be working in the BC / international school as they pay over the market conditions. It might be journalism, editing, niche areas of English (law, finance etc), acting, proof reading, whatever.

In short, if the average in Poland (Warsaw adjusted) is 3.5k, I still think this is achievable in the whole of Poland and in most places will provide you with a more than adequate amount to live on.

[dragonpiwo]

I think I might teach here for a few months till we go back. I'll let you know but some of the hourly rates I've seen have been appalling.

Was at a party the other day and my long-term teacher pals, who mostly teach in-company, are billing less now than 10 years ago according to them.

Maybe it's Poznan. The place is awash with teachers.

[dragonpiwo]

I'd also add that living on 3.5K paying rent is an awfully frugal lifestyle decision. Our bills are 2K a month before food and cigarettes. They would be the same if I were single. A single person arriving here will get a shock for a year or two.

Somewhere like Poznan isn't that much cheaper than Warsaw and I've lived in both.

People are offering private lessons for as little as 30Zl an hour! (6 quid). I think if you do the hours, 5K is doable but still, in modern Europe it's a pittance.

[scottie1113]

I haven't posted here in a while for two reasons. I see no point in getting involved in the pissing contests about the cost of living in Poland. Who cares if dragon's spending is profligate? It's his money and he can spend it as he wishes. The other reason is that my situation is very different than most of yours. Some of you know the story, but for those of you who don't, here goes.

I came to Poland seven years ago with a goal. I wanted to get my CELTA, which I did at Bell Warsaw, and I wanted to get a job in Gdansk, which I did at the school you all love to dis.

Other than a BA in French from the University of Washington in Seattle and the CELTA, I haven't "bettered myself", as Delph would say. However, I did bring 37 years of work/life experience with me-12 years as a US Marine officer and 25 years years in sales and sales management.

Today I signed a contract for the coming year with Ding Dong. It'll be my eighth year with them. There's a reason why I've stayed with them. It's a great place to work. I get paid the same amount every month whether there's a holiday, Christmas, Easter or semester break, plus Saturday classes which are paid on top of my salary.

I also added another private student for the coming week and two more when I return from a trip to York the first weekend in September. That will make eight private lessons a week plus two more beginning in late September. I've never advertised; they're all referrals.

I also have four hours of Skype lessons a week with a company which contacted me. I've never called a company looking for work. I have always had plenty of that with my school.

Along the way I've done the occasional voiceovers and proofreading that fell into my lap because of the people I've met.

My point is simply this. If you're going to teach English in Poland, be professional about it. Show up early for classes, prepared, and sober. Don't misunderstand the last point. I don't stay away from Delph's demon booze, but I don't overdo it when I've got classes in the morning. Do that and the word gets out. I have more requests for private lessons than my schedule will permit during the school year. There's plenty of work here in Gdansk, and I think that's true throughout Poland for good teachers.

I supplement all this by renting the largest room in my flat to a student. I'm currently sharing with an art student from Belarus. Lovely girl. We've become good friends and we exchange English and Polish. I've been doing this for the last five years. It works for me.

Since December I've getting my US Social Security benefit but I haven't touched it except to give, not loan, some money to friends who've need it more than I do.

There's much more, but that's enough for now. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

[scottie1113]

Damn. In the penultimate paragraph it should have been needed, not need. I'm a terrible typist.

[dynow]

[dynow]

SP wrote:

[Master Shake]

I would have been thrilled to earn 3.5k/mo. net when I first came to Poland in 2006. And I wouldn't have struggled at all on that salary in any other city than Warsaw. I was on a bit less in 06-07 and things got a little tight towards the end of the month, but I always managed.