Job Discussion Forums

[снеговик]

I applied for a position with EF about 1 month ago. I don't have a Celta or any TESL degree so I'm sure that's why I didn't hear back from them.

But then, today, they send this (see text below), and tell me that all positions in Russia are filled and I should come work in China. They are pushing the hell out of the China positions, I get letters every week about China, but this one about Russian is odd.

Really?? all the positions are filled? Why contact me now?

Strange.


Thank you for your application with EF English First in Russia. At this time, all of our teaching positions in Russia have been filled for August 2015.

If you are still looking to teach abroad early this year, EF in China is currently offering competitive teacher salaries in all major cities. Our teachers are working with kids and teens, adults, and our newest online platform. We have over 200 centers in China and English education is growing exponentially here.

Please let me know if you’d be interested in scheduling a time to speak about our teaching positions in China.

If you’d still prefer to teach in Russia, please feel free to reapply in February-March 2016 when our recruitment timeline starts up again for Russia positions.

Best Regards,

Rachel Wagner
Overseas Recruiter, Middle and Western US, Teacher Recruitment and Training (TRT)

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[Sashadroogie]

Load of rubbish, of course. Always vacancies of some sort in EF. This is clearly just an attempt to get people out to punishment posts in China that nobody wants to go to. But at least there's a competitive package!

All my dealing with EF in Russia, as limited as they were, were marked by incompetent HR who also suffered from a variety of issues, such as rudeness and large egos.

Activate your spam filter, coz that's all EF's emails are.

[снеговик]

Thanks for the info))

They really are desperate for people to go to China, it seems.

What is a punishment position?—sounds interesting, lol

[Sashadroogie]

Not as sexy as it sounds. Think more along the lines of... zeks : )

[expatella_girl]

снеговик, it was done to us too, but in a different industry.

We had been in Russia for some years, all things going swimmingly, when we simply could not weasel one more contract extension. So the company offered (pushed) a position in China with the tacit understanding once the China indenture was served we could return to Russia/CIS.

This company too was having a difficult time recruiting for its China operation. No one wanted to go. It was a huge pay and perk bump, but still few willing recruits - from anywhere.

So we dragged our butts off to China thinking to be there maximum one year before returning to our happy lives in Moscow. It was not to be.

The promises they had made in Moscow about the China contract turned out to be a lie. The China contract was a different contract than the Russia contract, and of course we didn't see it until it was shoved in our faces in Beijing full of all kind of crap we wouldn't agree to. So we refused to sign. So the company canceled our China visas. We had one week to leave their employment, and get out of China.

I think many companies lie about China because it is a huge schitzhole where no one wants to go. The money can be great, the perks can be great, living in China is hell on earth - there is just not enough money to justify enduring living in China.

Don't make our mistake and give them a chance. Just say NO to China and refuse to consider anything about the offer. Better to plan to go back where you came from with advance knowledge and arrangements, than find yourself in China scrambling to get the hell out any way you can.

Davesesl has a registry only China folder you may want to browse for warning, and Reddit has several very active China folders with many EFL teachers who pretty much seem to hate it there. Browse for yourself - http://www.reddit.com/r/China/

You really cannot believe how truly horrible China is until you have been there. Which is something you don't want to do.

[Sashadroogie]

Ooooh! Sounds quite nasty, that. Sorry to hear it.

So there you have it: EF is not to be trusted. Disregard any messaging you get from them on sites like linkedin too.

Come to Russia. There'll be plenty of vacancies in September, especially in EF : )))

[expatella_girl]

I can reveal this to you Sasha, what I can tell no one here. (I am now in the US after all, and the propaganda is deep, very deep) -

We would have gladly stayed in Russia forever. We loved Russia. Warts and all.

When our employment there could finally be extended no more (company policy with term limits) we would have gladly walked out of our subsidized Moscow apartment with our wheelie suitcases, and gone off to the nearest vokhzal to disappear on our own and live deep in Russia happily ever after.

Which of course was utterly impossible because of all the Russian visa limitations. Russia does not want foreigners cozying up in its hinterlands.

Even now, if there were some way to do it, we would joyously go back and stay forever.

[снеговик]

How can China be that bad? I have no interest in working there, but it seems to me that things can't be as bad as you imply. But I have never been there, so I will trust your opinion.


On a side note: When is the best time to apply for positions in Russia? I would love to find a job in Kazan. It's a really cool city—I liked it when I was there in August. Well to be honest I was in Йошкар Оле, but anyway, it was cool. St Petersburg sucked in my opinion, regardless of what Russians say, haha.

[expatella_girl]

[Deats]

Sorry expatella_girl, but you are speaking bo11ocks. You are basing your wild statements on what exactly?

Firstly, why would you go to China without even seeing a contract? Naive at best. Really, to uproots and move to another country on the word of a Russian or Chinese person is pretty daft. Then to say all of China is shocking and everyone hates it because of your bad experience - which you were at least partly to blame for!

China has a massive number of EFL teachers who live and work there and are completely content.

How long did you go to China for? A week? And you know ALL about China, right? After 1 week in 1 city... hmm.

I spent 4 years there and I am going back in September for another stint. After 4 years I'd had enough - funnily enough the straw that broke the camels back was the other foreigners we had to work with. Idiots. China has a lot of EFL idiots. But then again, so does Russia. Yes, China has many problems, but also many upsides. But so does Russia.

After 4 years in China, my wife and I saved the best part of $100,000 AND took 4 months vacation a year all around the world - South Africa, France, Switzerland, India, Mongolia, Thailand, Malaysia, Philippines, Russia, Moldova, Ukraine, Sri Lanka, Spain etc etc etc. So what are the upsides of China? Lots of money and looooong holidays - obviously these are dependent upon which position you accept. Also, much better weather than Russia. Whilst it is -15 in Russia, it's +15 in Guangdong. As for pollution, you choose a city that is in the south and you should be ok. No worse than Moscow. Oh and did I mention it was only 16 hours a week contract... Yeah, China is hell....

With regards to EF, I'm sure they still have positions in Russia, but you don't meet their requirements. Why not apply for other schools in Russia?

EF in China offer better terms and conditions than EF Russia. EF is based out of China - Shanghai, I believe. All recruitment for EF Russia actually goes through Shanghai - that's how/why they have your details. There aren't many EFs in Russia, but there are loads in China - hence there are more job openings there for someone with your credentials. EF all over the world is pot luck - some are great, some suck.

EFL in China is a good place to get a few years experience under your belt, which would then qualify you for better teaching positions in Russia. Also, Russia in 2 years will be a far more attractive proposition than it is now, IMO.

P.s. It's also a little ironic that expatella_girl moans about anti-Russia propaganda, then posts anti-China propaganda. Pot. Kettle. Black.

[Foma87]

I think EF offers a decent, reliable product to its clients; as I remember there were some very good teachers employed at the school I worked at, native and otherwise. But being an EF employee, in my personal experience, was and most likely still is, dismal, for all the obvious reasons. I got out within 3 months of my contract to teach privates and haven't looked back.

Anyway, I'm sure you could find a position in EF Russia if you emailed individual schools. Perhaps your experience with them will be better. There are many other chain schools, also. My bet is if you worked at it long enough, you'd easily be able to find a position for the next academic year.

[expatella_girl]

Deats, if you had actually bothered to read my post you would see that it agreed with your perception perfectly.

The money and perks are great. Living in China is hellish. Reread what you wrote again, and the best you have to say is that all the money you made allowed you to get out of China and travel extensively.

You mention nothing about actually having to *live there*.

Nothing about my post was "bollocks", it was pretty much a blow by blow of the actual series of events. How dare you call me a liar??

We lived in Beijing for 6 weeks. It was the only time in my life to date, that I have thanked the gods that I was a US passport holder with the wherewithal to leave that polluted pit of environmental catastrophe and GTFO.

And although I owe you an explanation for nothing, the company we were working for was American, the contract was in English, we had been with them for years, and yes they lied. And no, as I stated from the very beginning, it was not a language company contract. Better by far than any teaching job you have ever had.

If you like the money, go. Be happy. But never never call me a liar.

(BTW have you ever bothered to check the off-topic China folder here for all the 'I'm outta this hellhole' posts? Try it some time. Because those posts are legion and they go back for YEARS. The pollutions posts, the Chinese media censorship posts, the employer-just-screwed-me contract posts?)

Pfffft.

[Sashadroogie]

Everyone, take a deep breath of unpolluted air and....

Come to Russia! Raise a stopka to the motherland!

[Deats]

So *some* people are disgruntled and want to leave China. Big whup. *Some* teachers are disgruntled and want to leave Russia. Does this make Russia a hellhole? Remember there are WAY more ESL teachers in China, so you will obviously get way more complaints. Every country has bad employers and good employers. Don't forget, people who are disgruntled always post more than those who are satisfied. Usually people air their complaints.

You went to Beijing - one of the most polluted places on Earth. Not everywhere in China is like that. In the south the environment is way better.

So why is living in *China* hellish? Not Beijing, but China. Please explain from your experience. Oh, sorry, you have none. Only from your Beijing experience. A whole 6 weeks of it...

What is good about China? Let me list things that are better than Russia, as this is a Russia forum. And btw, I do love Russia, but these are just things China is undeniably better for:

Food
Public transport
Roads
Weather
*Accessible* scenery and tourist destinations
Cheap cost of living so you can do whatever you like

Then all the perks I described before.

It is the same as going to Moscow and passing judgement on Russia. You can't do that. Going to Beijing and now being an 'expert' on China is laughable. Oh, sorry, I forgot, you read a few posts complaining about China...

[Deats]

http://forums.eslcafe.com/job/viewtopic.php?t=109037

Just realised you are the person who dislikes everywhere. Miss negativity. Now I understand...