Job Discussion Forums

[fluffyhamster]

Believe it or not, there are still teachers who think that examples like 'This is a pen', 'Is this a pen?' and so on are actually teaching enough of value (the meanings of the four words involved, how to invert the subject and auxiliary verb, the slot-n-fill gap at the end that can be filled with "whatever" besides 'pen', very generative see? Blah blah blah, blah blah blah, just don't ask me to think of any more lexis than those four words please). This post will be the first of a new series aimed at rectifying this obvious shortage of thinking skills. Without further ado then:

1) What words other than 'pen' can you think of to fill the above gap in not only the example sentence, but possibly also in the students' vocabularies, grasp of authentic contexts, etc?

2) Are CCQs (concept-checking questions) necessary for 'pen'? If not, why not? If so, how about the following? 'Do you sharpen a pen?' 'No, but you don't sharpen an automatic pencil either, Teacher'. 'Hmm, OK, so can you erase what you write with a pen?' 'Yes, if it's erasable ink. But actually, what does erase mean, Teacher?' 'Rub out. Hmm, you still don't understand? OK, like this' <Mimes rubbing while standing at invisible table> Sts: !!!

3) If you picked 'banana' for 1), please enlighten and entertain your fellow readers with whatever CCQs you may be considering to really ram the concept home to students (or at least to trainees, who of course can only ever operate with the "easiest" examples imaginable, that teach nothing other than the all-important pedagogy involved).

Those who are too "experienced" or somehow affronted by these questions, please don't bother to reply. Thanks.

[RedLightning]

If I have more than three students who can differentiate between
This is a pen & Is this a pen at the end of the semester, I'm a happy man.

[fluffyhamster]

Well, yes, but if you're really peddling examples like that (I'm assuming you're joking though!), it shouldn't come as any surprise that your students won't develop that much understanding or communicative ability. It would be more instructive (if grammar is your thing) to ask 'Is this a noun?'.

[sheikh radlinrol]

[fluffyhamster]

What I said actually was 'too "experienced"'. You know, the type who see seem incapable of detecting poor examples and allied practice (or somehow want to defend it), and have likely been ineffective teachers for years, even decades.

Now that I've cleared that little comprehension problem up for you, perhaps you'd care to actually comment (or not, it's entirely up to you). I'll post further examples of underthinking presently to take up the possible slack. Feel free to post some of your own, if you have any.

[spiral78]

One awesome example of underthinking: assuming that many EFL teachers focus lessons around 4-word sentences

[fluffyhamster]

Another even more awesome example of underthinking: assuming that underthinking is not found in "richer" contexts.

Seriously though, I've encountered "This is/Is this a pen"-style thinking often enough (and not just in Asia!) that I think it's safe to say that it's actually quite widespread, and not only in improvised examples but in supposedly "well thought out" lessons.

[spiral78]

You said, hamster:

[/quote]just don't ask me to think of any more lexis than those four words please

[fluffyhamster]

Er, that was meant to be the voice of an underthinking teacher. Sorry you misread it, Spiral!

[spiral78]

Hamster, we teach our students to consider the reader and to make it clear whose voice is whose. In English, the burden is on writer/speaker, not on reader/listener. Maybe you'd benefit from joining one of our writing courses

[fluffyhamster]

Your reading problems are not my concern. I'm more interested in your constant claims to best practice, given which I'm sure you won't mind vetting and endorsing the following (from pg 140 in Ch 6 'Presenting and practising language' of Gower et al's Teaching Practice Handbook). I mean, they (and you) wouldn't ever be wrong about anything, eh?

[spiral78]

[fluffyhamster]

You're making them in this very thread, by claiming that four-word sentences or indeed Past Perfect (and any improvements upon the given contexts), to take the two things so far mentioned, have or can have no place in your and implicitly nobody else's thinking or teaching or learning. You literally have nothing to add here, so toddle along and stop derailing. I'd also like to point out that in my first post I said 'Those who are too "experienced" or somehow affronted by these questions, please don't bother to reply. Thanks', but you clearly chose to ignore that plea. (And yes, it was you in particular that I was thinking of when I wrote those words, if any further evidence were needed of your "constant" nature. Glad in a way you didn't prove me wrong, but then, you never do, do you?).

[spiral78]

[fluffyhamster]

You can argue about numbers but it is a fact that SOME teachers (you're the one who said 'many', not me, so that's your assumption for a start right there) do use crapola like pen-is questions. It's quite the classic, and a sure sign of a lack of imagination in a course. Turning then to CCQs, they are apparently ubiquitous, at least in training, and the quality of them IMHO usually leaves a lot to be desired - from checking ridiculously basic vocabulary like wardrobes and bananas to over-egging as you say what is (or should be) quite basic grammar. So any attitude that you (but perhaps only you) may have detected in my post stems from my frustration with the given methodology, both underlying and surface. I think those exemplars and the lessons that they purport to provide are a waste.of.time. You however may care to defend stuff like Gower et al presents, at least for whatever hapless poor newbie trainees fall into your or other trainers' clutches. I note that you haven't actually answered my questions about it (Gower) though, have you? Strange, that, but it wouldn't be the first time.