Job Discussion Forums

[estanton]

I've seen a few posts on broad cultural differences between Mexico and home countries. Already have experience with some things, like the people not showing up where/when they say they will, with immigrants I've tutored in the us. Also I've noticed there's a lot of respect for the teacher and unwillingness to say no-- even when the teacher is 30 years younger than you and the person has no intention of actually DOING what you're asking.

but I wonder about more of the day-to-day customs or manners that struck people as different. What do you do when you come into someone's home and meet their relatives? Any gestures of respect you should show someone like a boss (at least to their face)? I figure using "usted" in Spanish is one thing to do, although some people have told me that overusing that form makes you look weak. Any other things a person should do that might not come naturally?

on the other hand, any common gringo customs that people regard as rude? (Other than going into a store and loudly demanding a "plastico baggo" in English as a friend of mine saw someone do )

A Mexican woman I worked with told me that if you do something when talking to someone (can't unfortunately remember what ) people feel you are putting a curse on them. But then maybe she was just playing with the gringo's head.

I do know that when I went to India there were a lot of things to get used to (don't give money with the left hand, when you visit someone's house it's rude to refuse food no matter how overstuffed you already are with greasy mutton, etc.) Wondering if mexico is at all the same.

And if I have again missed an earlier post, I'll just have to go crawl in a hole . seriously, I tried to search for cultural difference, taboo, dos and donts, etc. If people have already discussed this maybe they can think of something new.

thanks

estanton

[lozwich]

Don't worry, e, you've asked a very good question. No need to go crawling into holes..

Nothing immediately springs to mind. A lot of the time, I have felt that I get cut quite a bit of slack, simply because I am a foreigner, so if I do something a bit wrong, they understand. The attitude I usually take is to keep my eyes and ears open and do what the Mexicans around me are doing, provided that it is not compromising my values.

I have learned that screaming your head off at service personnel is a sure-fire way to guarantee that whatever you are screaming about getting done will never happen. Speaking politely and clearly and asking them to please correct whatever the problem is goes a long way.

You're in the States, so maybe get a hold of the latest People's Guide to Mexico. I've read pieces and bits of that, and seem to recall it having lots of cultural notes in it.

Good luck!
Lozwich.

[thelmadatter]

Only two I can think about at the moment. At least here in central Mexico, it is somewhat common to greet friends, co-workers etc with a mutual kiss on the cheek (a la Europe). This surprised me greatly as I do not remember seeing that in Sonora or with immigrants in Arizona. It may be a regional phenomenon.

Second is personal space. Get used to people standing closer than you are used to when conversing.

The second doesnt phase me much but I still have trouble with the first. I do it but I dont like it.

[MELEE]

I think that Mexico has quite a bit a regional variety, and also the customs are different among the differnt economic/racial classes as well as generational lines. So it will be hard to speak in general. For example people in my town always say thank you to the bus driver when getting off the bus, but people in the state capital--two hours away, don't.

I'm guessing that you are male (sorry if that's not correct). In my part of Mexico women should not go into cantinas- you know its a cantina and not a bar, because there is a screen or swinging "saloon type" doors keeping passerbyers on the street from seeing in. If males go into cantinas and you get invited a drink, it would be very rude to turn it down, very rude meaning you might actually start a fight by refusing yet another shot of mezcal---be particularly careful if the men have machetes on their belts !

Courting roles are quiet different, so if you make friends with females, and to you, you two are really just friends, please make sure she knows that. She just might be expecting a proposal from you any day. If your female watch out for this too--there are a least two guys who think that they used to date me--I however never dated them.

There are all sorts of superstitions, but I don't think the casual traveller would have much contact with them. But if you "infiltrate" a family like I have you will be constantly told not to eat certain things at certain times and to do wierd things with red strings.

Along food lines, where I live you can only buy roast chicken at lunch time and you can only get tacos at night--that struck me a really strange when I first got here.

The safety laws, or shall I say lack of safety laws can be a little hard to get used to as well. Firework and vehical safety in particular.

As for common gringo things, the volume of your voice might be considered too loud--which is strange considering the volume of the radio can never be loud enough!

[richtx1]

Good question, Melee... I've noticed that we foreigners (especially we gringos) assume Mexicans will be pretty much like us... and even Mexican-Americans make this assumption.

The peck on the cheek greeting is standard everywhere in Mexico. Folks do this even in border cities like Matamoros and Juarez... though seem to eschew the custom once they cross the border.

Person space is a problem -- especially for us.

One that's tougchy to address is bathing. Mexicans are daily bathers and extremely clean. European teachers (and tourists) have faced problems when they don't bathe daily. We gringos are given to informal dress -- and unpressed clothing: another cultural difference (even the very poor dress formally for business and always wear pressed clothing).

OUR biggest faux-pax: English isn't the most polite of languages. "Polite as a Mexican" was a common expression in 18th Century Spain, and Mexicans are still known for their extreme politeness. Even Spaniards come across as rude to Mexicans. Por favor, gracias and no molesta are absolutely essential.

THEIR biggest faux-pas: people want to know EVERYTHING about you -- and haven't the slightest hesitation about asking question regarding everything from your relations, your sexual orientation and the cost of your car back home. For those of us raised on the assumption that one never pries it can be a little disconcerting.

[thelmadatter]

MMMM funny thing about the wanting to know everything about you. I dont know if its me or the part of Mexico I live in but that hasn't been too much of a problem for me, at least in my personal life. Work, however is a different story.

Im having to take this class (4 weeks!) of how I can be a counselor/moral support for my students. I admit to something of a bad attitude here. But as part of the classroom/homework assignments they wanted me to do all these psychological exercises with (to me ) extremely personal questions! For example, "pretend you are looking into the mirror. Describe what you see and how you feel about it." and "List the stressors in your life and how they affect your relationship with your co-workers"

Now I understand the need for self-examination but to write this stuff down for goddess-knows-who to see? I dont think so. So I simply wrote something else, more theoretical and handed it in. On one assignment I wrote that I could not respond because it was way to personal for me.

They havent fired me yet so Im assuming they accepted this.

[moonraven]

Just as students learn better when they are emotionally involved in the material, teachers also teacher better when they are emotionally open to their students. I have used some of those same kinds of exercises which you rejected as being too personal when training teachers, and have found them to be very useful. This is not to say that you don't have the right to refuse to participate--of course you do. And they probably won't fire you for exercising that right--but you might consider asking what they were trying to accomplish with those exercises.

[estanton]

Everyone, thanks very much for your responses!

I have a few follow-ups

[estanton]

One more point about formality:

I expect as a teacher I should plan to wear somewhat dressy clothes- makes sense in any country I think especially with high school kids, to give some authority.

On the other hand I don't want to spend 150 pesos a kg to get my laundry done and am planning to do it by hand. I'm planning to bring some of those quick-drying travel shirts to make that easier. But they look kind of like what a yuppie would wear on an African safari .

How formal do clothes need to be? Will I need to wear a tie (definitely rather not day-to-day but will if I have to)

Thanks

e

[moonraven]

Formality--or the lack of it--depends on where you will be working--that is to say, what kind of school and in which part of the country. You mentioned high school--I don't know of any high school teachers who wear ties, but dress slacks and ironed shirts, yes.

As for doing your own laundry to save money, most full service laundries charge around 10 pesos a kilo. Some cities have laundromats of the do-it-yourself type, too.

We DON'T all know each other in this forum. I personally only know one other person who posts here. But, as this is a virtual space, some people apparently think it should be one of those chatrooms where the level of interchange is limited to F-- you and your mama--and the horse you rode in on. One of the more aggressive posters also likes to tell us from time to time, when we don't agree with him or give him enough attention, that he is "the owner of the site". In a virtual environment some folks think that it's okay to call people names and unload a lot of their most politically incorrect baggage (racist comments, primarily)--things they probably wouldn't do in a "real" environment for fear of receiving negative social consequences. They even go so far as to send obscene hate PMs to other posters. That usually gets them banned for a spell. There are others who lose their cool and tell other posters to shut up. Virtual space can be very similar to that beyond the looking glass place, Wonderland, where the Red Queen screamed "Off with her head!" a lot....

All things considered, it's not a total loss as there is a certain amount of information available here--it may be very different from what you read in books about Mexico--and that will also give you a clue that most of Mexico (from about Zihuatanejo south), like the rest of Latin America, is Macondo territory (the mythical town that's the setting of many Garc�a Marquez novels.) If you happen to land north of 20 degrees latitude, you'll find yourself in Comala, which has a lot of coordinates in common with Macondo--but it was labeled by a different writer--Juan Rulfo--and has a lot of dead people and very active spirits. Things are never as they appear to be here--and that's one of Mexico's best qualities.

Don't worry, you'll be just fine.

P.S. Some non-Mexicans also grill habanero chiles for breakfast, and make "pico de gallo" with them--especially folks from New Mexico--the Chile Capital of the Universe. But killing bulls--this poster happens to feel, along with many folks you met inIndia I am sure, that that's going way too far.

[MixtecaMike]

You hit the nail on the head about mothers, however I rarely have a need to bring them into the conversation.

Playing football would be a good thing, although one guy who worked here played on a local baseball team and the opposing team's supporters used to chant in chorus "Pinche gringo, hijo de tu p___ madre." At least they left his team-mates alone.

I have no real Mexican friends here, but lots of acquaintances. However when I get out of work I go straight home to my wife and kids, so time is probably a big factor. My wife, who has a bit of spare time between taking the kids to school, cooking my lunch and washing the clothes (by hand) has tons of friends, and seems to know more of the neigbors than those who have lived here all their lives.

And surprisingly both here and in Guatemala I have found that on the whole people are MUCH friendlier in the big cities than in small places, "The Stepford Wives" is what often springs to mind.

Anyways, the best trick is to smile and listen a lot and then you'll see how others act/react and where you can fit yourself in to the grand scheme of things.

I don't wrestle bulls, but I do kick stray dogs, so there is some room for animal violence.

[seanie]

I've been in Mexico for a few years, and I have Mexican friends. I've never heard anyone refer to their mother or anyone else's as "la se�ora madre". Having said that, I would refrain from using terms like la pinche vieja unless, of course, the woman I'm referring to isn't well liked by my interlocutor. As for t� and usted, well I think a good default setting is usted for people you don't know or who are much older or in authority. Generally, you can use t� for young people, whether you know them or not. But this advice is only for the places I've been in Mexico (Mexico City and all southern states). I was told by a friend from Pamplona, Colombia that best friends there use usted... and I don't know why we don't use vosotros when talking to a couple of cuates.
I agree with Lozwich: take your cue from the locals, and I think in Mexico it's better to err on the side of politeness... and if you're seen as weak, well just say "�Vete a la chingada!" (Kidding )

[seanie]

ah! Almost forgot: If someone is a bit older, it usually goes over well to use Don or Do�a before their Christian name. For example, one of the ladies I get quesadillas from (a grandmother) is Do�a Elvira.

[Ben Round de Bloc]

In Yucatan, a peck on the cheek is a common greeting between a man and a woman or two women who know each other and like each other (or are pretending that they like each other.) For two men who know each other well, it's a handshake followed by a combo hug-slap-on-the-back maneuver. In other situations, a handshake is sufficient. Unless it's an extremely brief encounter (like almost on the run,) the same routine is repeated before departing company even if only a couple of minutes have passed in greeting.

People shake hands a lot here, especially when introduced to others, no matter how many of them there are. If someone is introduced to 12 people at once, he's expected to shake hands with each of them when introduced and again when he departs while saying it was nice to meet them. If two groups of people who know each other run into each other somewhere, the whole pecking-handshaking-hugging routine alone can take 5 minutes!

It's common for people in Yucatan, especially men, to pat little kids on the head, even kids of strangers. I've heard that it comes from a Mayan belief that by looking at a child, a person can put the evil eye on the child, but if he then touches the child, the spell is automatically removed.

One thing that can be a bit unnerving at first is eye contact with strangers. Many Yucatecans will look a stranger straight in the eye while not acknowledging the eye contact -- no change of expression, no nod of the head, just a blank look. This often happens in passing in public places.

I've found that most Yucatecans are polite people in general. Four exceptions are 1) when they're walking on a crowded sidewalk, 2) when it comes to waiting their turn for something and no line has been formed, 3) when they're pushing a cart in a supermarket, and 4) when they're behind the steering wheel of a car.

[lozwich]

On the handshaking/kissing thing...

In a small town in the Sierra Tarahumara that I know quite well, no-one seems to kiss anyone. Even as a woman I get very firm handshakes but nothing else, even from my good friends there. One day I was standing in a shop talking to one friend, when another friend came blasting in, shouted out my name and gave me a huge hug. I nearly fell over with the surprise!

However here in Oaxaca state, I've been kissed hello by women when being introduced. I have noticed though that rarely do lips ever touch cheeks, unless the person really likes you. Its kind of a cheek to cheek while making 'mwah' sounds and shaking hands. Sometimes that feels a little fake to me, but I do it anyway, and am nicely surprised when heartily greeted by friends who give me a proper kiss, shake my hand and the usual little half hug thingy that usually only men do.

Have a great day,
Lozwich.