Job Discussion Forums

[PAULH]

I dont know if you saw the article in Japan Times today but it was in reference to the high burnout rate of Japanese female managers at GEOS (I guess NOVA is no different) where these women have to reach sales quotas if they want to get paid and many put in 70 hour weeks to get a monthly salary of 250,000 yen a month. There is a ready supply of these women who want to speak English and work with foreigners in an 'international environment' that they are veritable cannon fodder for the higher ups


Many even sleep on a couch in the office when they need to put in extra hours to make up the sales targets etc and will do without airconditioning/lighting etc to cut down on electricity bills, which will come out of their salary.

Hearing newbies here complain about work hours, salary and conditions make many of you sound like a bunch of spoilt woosies, when there are people here who have it far worse off than you.

[melirae]

Yes, it is frustrating to hear people complain about a choice they voluntarily make.

While I feel for these women who are busting their butts to "speak English and work with foreigners in an 'international environment'," they get up every morning and choose to come to NOVA, GEOS, etc. just like all of us newbies chose pack our belongings, get on a plane to Japan and "suffer" the working conditions to experience that 'international environment' (some of whom could stay in their home countries and make much more than working at an eikaiwa in Japan) .

It's sort of like making the choice of whether or not to read the endless complaints of the "spoilt woosies" on this site......

[azarashi sushi]

Paul...

I didn't read the article but if it's true then I guess we could probably say the same about them as you do to so many of that

[guest of Japan]

I can't speak for Geos and Nova, but I can for AEON. An assistant manager for AEON makes very little, but the turnover rate is so high that they are virtually guaranteed a manager position within a year if they are willing to move. Once a manager, they make more than any teacher. After a few year they are making double the foreign teachers.

It's very true they work long hours under considerable stress, but if they are willing to persevere there are advancement opportunities. This can't be said for the foreign teachers.

[king kakipi]

Whichever way you look at it, this just highlights, very clearly , that these places are not educational establishments, but businesses. They don't employ 'teachers', only 'instructors' (hence the fact that experienced teachers don't get a look in); the Japanese management seem exclusively focussed on, and driven by, sales; and the 'customers' (ie students) pay top dollar, sorry Yen, for less than top quality product. (That is not a criticism of instructors, but of texts, quality of rooms etc). Further to that, I have now taught quite a few 'ex-big4' students in schools, other eikaiwa, business courses etc, and, without fail, they have all been critical of their 'big4' experiences.........and they have all perceived these places to be, first and foremost, 'educational establishments' not 'businesses'..............

[Laura C]

I have heard however that GEOS does seem to be particularly bad for Japanese managers, most of whom are female. When I interviewed with GEOS I met people who had friends already working for them -- they said the sight of female managers in tears wasn't that unusual.

GEOS do seem to be quite tough re renewal rates for a person working for them to sometimes become stressed by this. It's not being spoilt or a woose to not think your company is perfect. I agree that some people will complain no matter what their situation, but it's a bit simplified to say that people make their choice therefore they have no comeback whatsoever about their working conditions. Melirae, are we to assume that when you are in Osaka, you will find everything perfect? If not, I assume you will then go home rather than complain about anything?

L

[cafebleu]

Yes, I have heard the job is a very stressful one. Irrespective of the fact that nobody is forcing these women to do it, I think we can all identify with having to endure some unnecessarily stressful and exploitative conditions because we need to earn a living in this very expensive country.

Sometimes you don`t have a choice - it`s put up with a bad job while you bide your time looking for another. In the Japan of 2004 it is not so easy to find another.

I`d like to ask about the foreign women managers. A friend of mine met an obnoxious, know-all Australian woman who was a recruiter or something for Geos and maybe a manager. I can`t be more specific because I only know what I recall - I don`t know anybody in Geos. Possesses with a very large frame (to put it nicely) and an abrasive, smug, I know it all personality I wonder how such a person fits in with Geos. Or perhaps they are looking for fat, obnoxious foreign women. Sorry to sound so rude.

[denise]

[melirae]

I hope to be the exception to the rule of spoilt woosies...thanks for the vote of confidence Denise!

I do not expect Osaka to be perfect, however I am going to choose to enjoy the situation and make the most of it rather than spend my free time posting complaints on a website. I am choosing to take a job that pays about $15K less than what I make here, but I don't think a price can be put on the experience that I will have in Japan. I know that my apartment will be smaller, I'll have roommates and the food will take a lot of getting used to, but I'm going in eyes wide open and I'm ready to adapt. I also know that my lifestyle will be slightly different given the cut in salary, but I'm OK with that. The job may also not be perfect, but look at the payoff of experiencing a fantastic culture and a new language!!!

If I detest that situation so much that I absolutely cannot bear it, then I will go home rather than spend my time whining to anyone who will listen about how horrible I think Japan and my company is, rather than ruin the experience of everyone around me. I don't see myself packing my bags to come home until my year contract is up though...at least!

[PAULH]

[joncharles]

When I first arrived at Nova, I was told during orientaion the Nova was very proud of the fact that they hire many women as managers. For a long time and still is for that matter, it is very difficult for a women to rise to a manager position in most Japanese businesses. So the big Eikaiwas offer them the chance and then they work themselves sick. Lots of pressure.. I remember one time the head sales manager for the region.. (also a woman) was at the school because the staff did not make their quota.. I mean she sounded like a drill sergeant. No wonder whenever news came that she was coming, the girls had this look of fear on their faces.

[J-kun]

The Japanese staff at eikaiwa certainly do have it a lot worse than the foreigners. At Aeon, if the managers don't make their financial targets, they have explain what went wrong and practically beg for forgiveness from their superiors at the monthly meeting. The same goes for all those silly campaigns that the foreign staff can more or less ignore.

The Japanese teachers also have a heck of a lot more work than the foreigners since they have to answer phones, take care of scheduling, help the managers "counsel" students on contract renewal. For less money, of course. Add to that the level of politeness they have to use with "o kyaku-sama," regardless of how rudely they are treated.

Though I have heard one horror story from a foreign teacher who had 8 classes every Saturday, usually, the foreign teachers are livin' easy by local standards. This isn't to say that it's a good job compared to what you can get elsewhere, just that, lousy as it sounds, you should consider yourself lucky if you weren't born here.

[AgentMulderUK]

[lajzar]

Let's be fair. Those ladies do indeed *need* to work there. Don't you have any idea at all how much LV costs these days?

[PAULH]

here is the original article if anyones interested

http://www.japantimes.com/cgi-bin/getarticle.pl5?fl20040706zg.htm