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anton
Joined: 07 Jul 2004
Posts: 46
Location: Taianan, Taiwan
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 Posted: Sat Jul 10, 2004 9:25 am Post subject: no degree, no job? |
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| I am a 24 year old english guy travelling through south east asia....before i came out i did a Celta course with the hope of teaching in Japan. I have A levels but no degree...i started a 4 year japanese degree but decided not to continue...music seemed more important at the time! now i find myself in this position....desperately wanting to live and teach in japan, learning the language and culture of the country i have this affinity for but every job posting seems to require at the minimum a degree. Can anyone let me know of my chances of finding a job without this qualification? Look forward to hearing from you! Antony |
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PAULH
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Posts: 4672
Location: Western Japan
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| Posted: Sat Jul 10, 2004 9:41 am Post subject: Re: no degree, no job? |
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| anton wrote: |
| I am a 24 year old english guy travelling through south east asia....before i came out i did a Celta course with the hope of teaching in Japan. I have A levels but no degree...i started a 4 year japanese degree but decided not to continue...music seemed more important at the time! now i find myself in this position....desperately wanting to live and teach in japan, learning the language and culture of the country i have this affinity for but every job posting seems to require at the minimum a degree. Can anyone let me know of my chances of finding a job without this qualification? Look forward to hearing from you! Antony |
A degree is required for the work visa from immigration.
Your only options are the 12-month working holiday visa but you can only apply for it in the UK at the Japanese embassy. You can not get the working holiday while you are in Japan.
Spouse visa. Get hitched to a Japanese national- in your case unlikely with no job and no degree.
Student visa, but I guess you have already had one of those here?
Sorry, your chances with no degree otherwise are from nil to zero. |
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Gordon
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Posts: 5309
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Sat Jul 10, 2004 10:28 am Post subject: Re: no degree, no job? |
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| anton wrote: |
| before i came out i did a Celta course with the hope of teaching in Japan. ....desperately wanting to live and teach in japan, learning the language and culture of the country i have this affinity for but every job posting seems to require at the minimum a degree. Can anyone let me know of my chances of finding a job without this qualification? |
I have a hard time believing you. You tell us how badly you want to come here and teach and you go out a get a CELTA, yet you never inquired as to what the job qualifications are to work here. 
Paul is correct with his info. You can go back to the UK and apply for a WHV in London. However, you'll only be able to work p/t at a tax rate 4 times higher than a work visa (20% opposed to 5%). WHV are also only valid for 1 year. Another option is finish what you started:your degree. Sorry the news is not what you want to hear. |
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PAULH
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Posts: 4672
Location: Western Japan
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| Posted: Sat Jul 10, 2004 11:34 am Post subject: Re: no degree, no job? |
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| anton wrote: |
| esperately wanting to live and teach in japan, learning the language and culture of the country i have this affinity for but every job posting seems to require at the minimum a degree. |
Just curious
would you have this affinity and love affair with japanese culture even if there were no jobs here? Thinking of becoming Japanese?
Everyone talks about their love of Japanese culture and how much they want to learn the language but the real reason is that every westerner foreigner who speaks English wants to feed at the English teaching trough but lacks the qualifications to get a visa.
When I came to japan I didnt even know there were teaching jobs to be had here for people with a degree. I have been here donkeys years and i still dont have an affinity for the culture- though I do like it in parts. |
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monkey_z
Joined: 22 Jun 2004
Posts: 26
Location: Aichi
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| Posted: Sat Jul 10, 2004 11:43 am Post subject: |
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Paul,
In your opinion, who is qualified to teach in Japan? (Not trying to be an "A", real question) |
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PAULH
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Posts: 4672
Location: Western Japan
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| Posted: Sat Jul 10, 2004 11:59 am Post subject: |
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Short answer
Any one who can get a work visa without
1. getting a fake degree or otherwise falsifying their application
or has permission to work here.
A BA doesnt make you an English teacher but it gets you a work visa.
what kind of job you can get once you have your foot in the door depends on what employers want and what the job demands. Most people could not apply for my job as they dont have the qualifications and skills, but I still teach English like you guys. the bar is a little higher thats all.
PS My mother is a native speaker of english (Dutch-born actually, but 50 years in New Zealand) but she could not teach at NOVA or do what I do. She has two degrees as well. on paper she qualifies to get a visa here. Whether she could teach english or would be good at it is another story. |
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anton
Joined: 07 Jul 2004
Posts: 46
Location: Taianan, Taiwan
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| Posted: Sun Jul 11, 2004 1:01 pm Post subject: No Degree, No Job? |
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| No degree no job... Thats bad news! My intrigue for the culture is not some kind of illusion it is genuine, PAUL. Of course there is the distinct possibilty that actually living in Japan might make me think otherwise, but for a while now its been a dream of sorts....anything wrong with that? I'v been told various times that working in japan without a degree is no huge problem...2 people in Hokkaido say they worked for two years with CELTA but without degree...they said experience got them the job....maybe its just that people with degrees don't like the idea of people without getting anywhere? |
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PAULH
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Posts: 4672
Location: Western Japan
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| Posted: Sun Jul 11, 2004 1:07 pm Post subject: Re: No Degree, No Job? |
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| anton wrote: |
| but for a while now its been a dream of sorts....anything wrong with that? I'v been told various times that working in japan without a degree is no huge problem...2 people in Hokkaido say they worked for two years with CELTA but without degree...they said experience got them the job....maybe its just that people with degrees don't like the idea of people without getting anywhere? |
Here are visas you can get that do not require a university degree
Working holiday visa
Spouse visa (married to Japanese)
Dependent visa (your spouse is a foreign national with a work visa)
Permanent resident visa
Student/Culture visa (work part time)
Do you qualify for any of these? Maybe your friends were married with japanese spouses.
You dont need a degree to get a job, you need a degree to get a full time sponsored Instructors visa that allows you to work here. Plenty of visas that dont need degrees. Just a question of whether you can get any of them. An Instructors visa or a humanities visa at least, requires a degree. |
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PAULH
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Posts: 4672
Location: Western Japan
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| Posted: Sun Jul 11, 2004 1:11 pm Post subject: Re: No Degree, No Job? |
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| anton wrote: |
| they said experience got them the job....maybe its just that people with degrees don't like the idea of people without getting anywhere? |
Id be interested to know how far a person can go teaching in Japan without a degree- maybe possible but you are limited to perhaps part time work or working at language conversation school (at minimum wage) though a reasonable enough job, is not what I call climbing the career-track here. You certainly cant support a family unless you have a full time job, and possibly a Masters degree. Even people with spouse visas need a degree in many cases if they want to get hired. |
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Gordon
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Posts: 5309
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Sun Jul 11, 2004 1:11 pm Post subject: Re: No Degree, No Job? |
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| anton wrote: |
| ....maybe its just that people with degrees don't like the idea of people without getting anywhere? |
You really don't like to hear advice that you don't agree with do you. Go ahead and come to Japan. Just don't say you weren't warned.
Go ahead and apply at my university and see how far you get. My students all have more education than you. |
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PAULH
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Posts: 4672
Location: Western Japan
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| Posted: Sun Jul 11, 2004 1:31 pm Post subject: Re: No Degree, No Job? |
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| anton wrote: |
| 2 people in Hokkaido say they worked for two years with CELTA but without degree...they said experience got them the job....maybe its just that people with degrees don't like the idea of people without getting anywhere? |
What job might that be?
working one day a week while they are studying at Sapporo university
1000 yen an hour handing out flyers.
Filling in as a last minute replacement becuase their friend had to fly home
On a working holiday visa- i have heard of people getting one year or six month extensions past the use-by date.
Just because a friend of a mate does it, it doesnt mean you can as well, becuase the circumstances, timing and conditions may be completely different and they may have valid visas.
the only one I see you getting is the working holiday visa, but you cant get it in japan, and you have to apply for it back in london. You CAN work in japan with no degree, no one is stopping you, as thousands come every year on WHV. In your case, you have to jump through the hoops like everyone else. Imight add that your chances of making your way in this country with no degree and not qualifying for a work visa or any other kind of visa, are so remote its not even funny.
No one made you drop out of university. No one made you do a CELTA when even that wont qualify you for a work visa here. no one made you study music when it has no connection with getting a job here.
You hoe your own field, as far as I can see. |
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Glenski
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
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| Posted: Sun Jul 11, 2004 2:25 pm Post subject: |
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anton wrote:
| Quote: |
| I'v been told various times that working in japan without a degree is no huge problem...2 people in Hokkaido say they worked for two years with CELTA but without degree...they said experience got them the job |
What other details about these individuals do you know? Were they working for a university or eikaiwa? Did they have spouse visa, dependent visa, etc.? Were they working FT or PT?
Working in Japan without a degree, as Paul has already described, might be no problem for some, but in the teaching world, it is almost a necessity. The Ministry of Foreign Affairs web site shows that you must have a degree to get a work visa (not needed for a working holiday visa, mind you), or you can also apply with years of experience under your belt. Perhaps that is what your friends meant?
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| maybe its just that people with degrees don't like the idea of people without getting anywhere? |
This is an age old, stale argument usually started by people without degrees trying to get teaching jobs in Japan and refusing to believe or adhere to any of the facts that people give them. Don't insult people even with sarcasm. It just weakens your case. Remember, some of us are teachers with degrees in education/teaching, some of us slipped in the back door with degrees in other fields. But, by and large, the majority of people teaching here have degrees.
In a related vein, I used to work in the States in a non-teaching corporation. One of the most respected people there, and one of the few people who actually knew how to get things done had "only" a HS diploma. She now owns her own company, and we are very good friends, so this is just one example of people here having degrees and NOT feeling the way you describe.
You have been told the requirements. Don't complain if they don't suit you. If you really are enamored with Japan, you'll get what it needs to work here legally. |
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PAULH
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Posts: 4672
Location: Western Japan
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| Posted: Sun Jul 11, 2004 2:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Glenski wrote: |
| Quote: |
| maybe its just that people with degrees don't like the idea of people without getting anywhere? |
This is an age old, stale argument usually started by people without degrees trying to get teaching jobs in Japan and refusing to believe or adhere to any of the facts that people give them. Don't insult people even with sarcasm. It just weakens your case. Remember, some of us are teachers with degrees in education/teaching, some of us slipped in the back door with degrees in other fields. But, by and large, the majority of people teaching here have degrees.
. |
Just to add to Glenski's point. All of the people you are speaking to on here have valid work visas, are married and have families (not sure about Gordon though). Most of us have Masters degrees. Most of us are pretty well up the teaching tree here and see no threat from someone who can not even get a visa to work here and its not likely that you will take our jobs away or even be considered for a job interview. My job requires an advanced degree, academic publications and high-level Japanese ability.
If you want to have a shot at putting your toe in the water, being considered even for low-level McKaiwa jobs, rather than pressing your face against the glass you will have to think about what you have to do about becoming qualified and sufficiently experience to work here rather than complain about being shut out due to lack of qualifications. Everyone else has to, so join the queue. |
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Gordon
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Posts: 5309
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Sun Jul 11, 2004 2:40 pm Post subject: |
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| All of the people you are speaking to on here have valid work visas, are married and have families (not sure about Gordon though). |
You're correct. |
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joncharles
Joined: 09 Apr 2004
Posts: 132
Location: Beijing
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| Posted: Sun Jul 11, 2004 2:49 pm Post subject: |
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Paul,
I do have some bad news... as you may know I have been trying to find a new job in Japan for a few months now. I am on the net everyday checking out the ESL sites for new job postings. Over the past three months I have seen two ads for English teachers that specifically stated "no degree needed," and another that stated that they will hire you on a tourist visa. The two schools advertising no degrees needed were in Hokkaido (three month contract for summer) and Shikoku. The one saying they will accept a tourist visa I can't recall. Ah.. I found it.. I have a suspicion that these are probably not reputable schools.
| Quote: |
ENGLISH TEACHER.
Part-time, 12 hours/week. Teach English conversation in exchange for private room. Position located in Urawa, 30 minutes from Shinjuku (the Tokyo central). "Short or long term, tourist visa OK!" Contact Mr. Shimada. Ray English Club. 048-887-4232. Fax 048-882-2334.
mailto:[email protected]
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Maybe Glenski has heard of the school in Hokkaido ... If I can remember the ad correctly they were looking for teachers for the summer (three months) and specifically stated that no degrees were needed.
Our new friend here who has a CELTA, but no degree will still have a problem. These places will not pay enought to live on and plus, if I am not mistaken, you can get deported if caught working on a tourist visa...right?
Last edited by joncharles on Sun Jul 11, 2004 2:58 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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