Job Discussion Forums

[limbo]

Hi. I will be graduating with my MA in English soon, and am considering spending a year working in Hong Kong. I don't have any teaching experience or a Bed, so I am wondering what my chances are of finding a job. Can I work at a university, or only at a kindergarten or public school? Also, how much money can I expect to make?
Thanks!

[Ludwig]

It is quite hard to believe some of the posts here. You think you can work at a university - in HK - with only a BA and without any experience (!) You do not just 'consider' working here, decide, then start! Who, exactly, do you think is going to need to have to employ you? What would they be paying for if you have neither qualifications nor experience? A western face? There is no shortage of them here, it is an ex-British colony, remember?

Do you not realise that most - if not all - of the students at a university in HK would be vastly better qualified than you? I work at an English language/linguistics department at a university here and I was lucky to get the post as I am still completing my doctorate; most of the staff are doing post-doc research. I have coming up for a decade of experience now, have 10 'O' levels, 5 'A' levels, 2 'AS' levels', a BA (Hons) in language studies and linguistics, a MA in language acquisition, a CELTA, a CELTA YL-extension, a PGDE and, as stated, am currently completing my doctorate. I also have 3 (peer reviewed) publications in compilations of university working papers and in-house conference proceedings.

Nevertheless, I am without doubt the least qualified and experienced in my department, and was very fortunate to secure the position indeed (I suppose it helped that my PhD supervisor recommended me for the post). Even the vast majority of the teachers within the adult and continuing education school attached to my department who just conduct basic, run of the mill language classes, all have (at least) a Masters degree, most in education, and many have two Masters; one in education and one in a specialist area. There is one chap who does not have any post graduate qualifications but he does have a BEd, a PGCE, and some 17 publications in internationally recognised journals and conference proceedings which sort of speaks for itself (as well as a CELTA and DELTA). In short, competition here is high and you will be up against people immeasurably better qualified and experienced than yourself.

I must say, lumping universities and kindergartens together is quite some confluence! Kindergarten teachers need kindergarten qualifications in HK according to the employment law and you are unlikely to be sponsored for such a post from outside of the SAR.

[Freddie_Unbelievable]

[Ludwig]

Thank you for the input, secondary school teacher beyond belief.

All because someone claims to be gaining a MA soon, does not entail their having previously completed a BA.

It is not I that is 'tough', but, rather, the employment market in Hong Kong. If you can not handle that, then tough.

[limbo]

Wow. I'm so glad I wasted my time asking a question. For someone who has so many amazing qualifications, you are certainly missing the main one of importance when attempting to teach English - the ability to read! If you had taken the time to read my request before automatically attacking me, you would realize that I have an MA in English, from the University of Toronto. I also have an Honours BA from the same school, both degrees completely funded by scholarships, as well as a scholarship to study at the university of Hong Kong, and a scholarship to study at Oxford, which I am sure you know is one of the top schools in the world. I am taking a year off before doing my Phd, so please don't assume that you are more intelligent than I am, especially after you have proven yourself wrong. I may not have experience teaching ESL, or any extra 'degrees' that essentially only require the cash to buy. I have however presented papers at numerous North American conferences, and acted as a visiting lecturer for both university and highschool classes in Canada. I have also started my own day camp when I was 15 and built it up into a profitably company now affiliated with one of the largest and most respected private schools in Canada. I have also published articles in many well known scholarly journals, as well as working for many equestrian publications and acting as communications and marketing manager for the largest equestrian company in North America. I, unlike you, did not feel that it was necessary to list my life's accomplishments on a public forum. I simply wanted to know if there was a possibility of working for 1 year with an Ma, as I have been told that other people in my situation were able to find jobs working as teaching assistants for continuing education classes at universities in Hong Kong. Furthermore, I also inquired about the possibility of working at kindergartens or public schools, a fact which obviously displays my willingness to enter into any aspect of the job market, not my arrogance in assuming that universities will be throwing money at me. Perhaps if you got off your high horse for a minute and learned how to read effectively, you would not have misinterpreted my post or reacted in such a rude, juvenile manor.
Thank you Freddie for not jumping to conclusions as some individuals feel the need to.

[limbo]

I find it interesting that someone who has as much experience in the university setting would have absolutely no knowledge of the way degrees are confered. Since you mention A levels, I am assuming that you are from the UK. Having lived in England for 3 years as well as having studied there, I know for a fact that NO ONE can receive a masters degree without at least having a BA. Furthermore, coming from North America, I was required to complete a 4 year BA rather than the 3 year found in the UK. In order to obtain an MA I needed to do 2 years of additional study, a step which can be skipped completely in England, a country which allows its students to commence PhD studies (which only take 3 years), without an MA. Having already done 2 years more schooling than is required for an MA in the UK, I am taking 1 year off before starting my PhD, which takes an average of 5 years here and also requires the completion of extremely difficult comp exams, which are not required in England, along with a defence in front of a board of examiners and the publication of the thesis in a recognized scholarly format. To obtain my MA in Canada, I was required to complete courses and exams in every period of English literature, as well as completeing theory courses and courses for each major region of the world, none of which is required in England, as well as passing a language exam displaying competency in either French or German, and Latin and Old English. You complain that I am naive and stupid for even contemplating working in Hong Kong without crudentials, yet your own lack of basic knowledge of the education system causes me to question your own crudentials

[Ludwig]

'Limbo', you are clearly in limbo. You write, "I will be graduating with my MA in English soon", yet then write, "I have an MA in English". Did you actually graduate in between the first and second post?

Thank you for saying that I possess "amazing qualifications". It is somewhat perverse that you should charge that I did not read your post - or that I am unable to - as if you had read mine - or, if you were able to - you would clearly see that I state that I am the least qualified in my department and that there was an element of good fortune involved.

Well done on securing scholarships. I am afraid to tell you, however, that this is really quite normal. My MA too was funded by the economic and social research council, and most - if not all of the staff at my department - also have had their degrees funded. It is quite normal to meet exceptional people at exceptional institutions.

You are obviously not cut out for Hong Kong.

[limbo]

I'm glad that your degrees were also funded. Luckily for you that is the norm in your country, but again, if you knew as much about university administration as you claim to know, you would realize that this is not the case in most countries. In North America the government does not provide funding for studies, this is the soul decision of the universities, and all monies are given out via academic scholarships.

You are correct, however, in noted the change of tense between my two posts. To clarify, I have completed all necessary work and exams for my degree, but my university only confers degrees at 2 times - in June, or in November. For this reason, I do not actually have my certificate of graduation in my hands at the point in time, although I do have all of my transcripts and copies of all of my published articles.

I am certainly willing to correct my own errors, whereas you yourself have failed to even respond to my comments regarding your own lack of knowledge concerning academic institutions.

I find it comical that you are able to unequivocably state that "Hong Kong is not for me," given the short amount of time and small amount of information you possess about me. Did I forget to mention that I am fully fluent in Cantonese and have a basic working knowledge of Mandarin?

[Ludwig]

[kowlooner]

Wow, that got nasty pretty quickly!

Limbo, the reality is that your academic qualifications are solid but not necessarily outstanding if you are hoping for a university position. Your credentials will be acceptable for some employment situations and less acceptable for other. But don't accept that any position is by definition beyond your reach.

The problem is that you did lump together university teaching with kindergarten work. Clearly you would prefer the former but are wondering if you would be restricted to the latter. You might be able to get something in a university, but it would probably at best be not much more than a tutoring type of job.

Not having any education credentials, however, does pose a problem. Again, it depends on who you talk to.

As for your Cantonese and Mandarin ability, take Ludwig's comments with a grain of salt. I grew up here in HK and speak Cantonese reasonably well but I wouldn't call it "fluent". My Mandarin is better because I had years of actual study of the language here in HK and in Beijing, but I still wouldn't claim fluency. However, I've met quite a number of foreigners in HK who claim fluency in Mandarin or Cantonese, and though perhaps Ludwig is an exception, the majority are certainly not fluent, unless they are comparing themselves against foreign beginner learners of Canto / Mandarin. The "telephone test" proves nothing.

Your language ability, if it is truly strong, will be a plus.

As for pay, check other posts already made about the subject to get an idea of the range you may expect for kindergarten, public schools (the NET program), private language outfits, and universities.

Best of luck!

[ryuro]

Ludwig, ludwig, ludwig...

I know plenty of people teaching in Hong Kong without what you wuld probably consider "qualifications". Some of them even doing Uni or College giggs.

I've said it before- lighten-up! Or at least go back to observing your bees.

[mcNug]

I don't know about the rest of you, but I feel a slight tingling in my pants everytime that Ludwig posts.

Such a humble, loving helpful individual.

[Freddie_Unbelievable]

Limbo VS Ludwig

That was like a cat fight! Who Won?

[jenny-pnet]

Neither yet. In the next round they get to compete to see who can pee the furtherest.

[once again]

I guess that would be the time when the nobs both hang out together.