Job Discussion Forums

[Sweetsee]

(WARNING: long rant about Japanese high school behavior problems)

and

(Please outline a behavioral problem and how you deal with it)

I work as a full-time teacher at a private girls high school.

This year I was asked to share homeroom duties with a Japanese teacher but conduct all other lessons alone.

The homeroom has a group of nine students who interact only among themselves. Further, they are allergic to one student who has become withdrawn and doesn't want to come to school. She had been pals with the ringleader and they had a falling out before this school year started.

The behavior of the members in the group is unacceptable to me. They chatter constantly among themselves across the room during the lesson, they sit any which way they like, they refuse to do assigned tasks, they do nothing at cleaning time, they are often late and when they arrive they waltz in saying hello to their mates and generally disrupting the class and on and on.

In addition to the homeroom sessions before and after school I teach them conversation four hours a week.

The Japanese teacher and I agree on their behavior and told their parents when they came to visit. Nothing changed.

The Japanese teacher tolerates their behavior and sometimes tells them to be quiet or sit straight. I don't feel comfortable saying anything during homeroom as he is in charge.

I decided I would take them aside one by one.

Monday was the first day of lessons of the new term and I was determined to make a fresh start with all my classes.

I decided against confronting the students and would see how things played out. They were worse than usual and during cleaning time, which I have to monitor, I had to track down one pair of students. As usual they were doing nothing to help and I decided to have a talking to with one of them who happens to be a leader.

I took her into the room across from the teacher's room and asked her if she knew why I gave her a bad grade. I told her that her behavior was unacceptable to me. I also told her that the group was inconsiderate of the others in the class and creating a lousy atmosphere for all. I also told her that I don't look forward to our classes at all; due to their behavior.

At one point she was nearly in tears, which surprised me. I wasn't scolding, I was telling her that I didn't appreciate her behavior in my class and that had to change and I want to give her a good grade and I want to be able to see her around school or elsewhere and be able to say hello. I don't want to look the other way and think, oh no!

I told her I want her to sit straight and at the very least look like a student for the 50 minutes in class.

After, she went directly across the hall and said something to the first teacher she could. I don't know what.

I then spoke to another student. She actually thanked me afterwards.

Then, the Japanese teacher confronted me and said I was out of order. He said the girls had come to him and complained about me. He said their behavior has been directed at me all along and that he was sorry that they and I were both frustrated.

I told him that I couldn't believe that he was defending them. I told him that I didn't appreciate their behavior and why was he allowing it?

At the start of the year I asked him to have a word with a student. He told me the relationship between students and staff is very sensitive and that one wrong word could be very...I don't know what...catastrophic?

This has been going on and on and on.

It just so happens that he was absent from school on the day I spoke to these students.

I don't know whether he confronted me on his own or was told to by higher ups.

The following morning I asked a trusted teacher how to handle trouble makers.

He said:
ask them once to stop,
then yellow card(one sheet homework)
no red cards(no kicking them out of the classroom)
I said how many yellows, on and on he said
failure to complete homework=detention period after school
failure to report for detention=detention
and on and on and on

So, this morning the ring leader's mum calls in to say that junior doesn't want to come to school, along with two others. Reason cited: mental problems.

No one ever told me how to handle trouble makers at school until I asked today.

I am looking for advice on how to cope.


Thank you.

[henro]

Discipline problems seem much harder to deal with for us foreign teachers than for Japanese teachers. I suspect it's because we don't give out penalties as quickly as our colleagues, and our penalties are generally much milder.

I've never taught in a high school, but for seven years (off and on) I've taught elementary and junior high, as well as univ and eikaiwa. In elementary and junior high, the kyoto-sensei is always considered to be the person in charge of discipline. Three times I've had to ask a kyoto-sensei to intervene with students. Two of the three times, behavior improved quickly, dramatically and lastingly. The third time there was some improvement, but it didn't hold over summer vacation. I may talk with him again next week.

Don in Kito-son, Naka-gun

[guest of Japan]

Sweetsee, I'm going to try to be clear and direct. Nothing is meant as an attack.

Point one: Student behavior may influence the grade, but it is unwise to base a total grade off of it. Interpretation of behavior is subjective. The student teacher relationship should have very little bearing on student performance evaluations. Try to find more objective measures of performance.

Point two: Many severe behavioral problems are caused by the teachers. You need to be able to recognize when this is a possibility.

Point three: I believe that in your meeting with the student that you described that you did overstep your bounds. The exchange seems far too personal and humiliating to the student. You made judgments on her individual character and degraded her not only as a student but as a person.

Point four: The thank you that you received from another student was a hollow way of ending the discussion. It is what Japanese are taught to do when receiving criticism from an elder. She was probably fuming inside.

I am not saying that these students did not deserve discipline and punishment. I'm quite certain they did. I believe that you were right in making an attempt to express your expectations for them. However you let your personal feeling cause you to overstep your bounds. I would not be surprised to see this develop very unfavorably.

I wish you luck with your current situation, and I hope you can use it to guide your future endeavors. Be keen to the talk in the office and be prepared to make apologies. If you were Japanese this would likely float by the wayside, but as a foreigner your job security is under threat.

[Sweetsee]

Guest,


Nice to read you again and thank you for replying to my lame post. I really want to delete it but I won't.

Point 1: I gave grades based on the student's attitude and performance.

Point 2: In a weird way I do feel that I am responsible. They hate me don't they, severely?

Point 3: Agreed

Point 4: Agreed

Job security? That was going through my mind as JT was standing there saying nothing to my questions about what I was supposed to do. It will be a royal pain in the #ss for him now but he will have his job next April.

And so be it. I was sleeping in a car in Hollywood 4 years ago and can't wait to see what's next!

When one door is closed, many more will open...yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah...the biggest man you ever did see was once just a baby...

[stillnosheep]

Private high schools are dependant upon the fees that they charge their students.

It sounds to me as though your Japanese co-teacher was failing to maintain minimum standards of discipline neccessary for an effective learning environment, and to combat the bullying behaviour towards the ostracized girl.

Japanese girls really really don't like being singled out for a ticking off; on the other hand I know of a Japanese High School girl being slapped for turning over the waistband of her skirt, thereby shortening it to an inch or so less than the regulation two inches below the knee. It depends upon the teacher and the school.

It sounds as though you have been let down by your Japanese co-teacher and his colleagues.

If I were you I'd approach the problem as one of ensuring an effective learning environment for all of the students concerned (ie stressing how you are all on the same side and sharing the same goal. Try not to let the situation turn into an 'us and them' vis-a-vis certain students or your Japanese co-workers. And get in touch with the General Union.

sns

[Sweetsee]

SNS,


Thank you so much. I like your style.

I do feel let down.

You are spot on about my co-teacher/learning environment.

Couldn't someone have sat down with me from the get go and say, "Look, this is the way it works"?

Think I should speak with Kocho-sensei? We're tight, buds.

No. I have a kid, live in the hood, maintain the plants, coach hoop...they aren't going to can me.

I am curious to know if JTE was acting independantly when he spoke to me.

Thank you very much for supporting me and for your sound advice.

You are either part of the problem or the solution. I believe that. And that's what I told mate yesterday. I tell it like it is.


peace SNS et al,
s

[Glenski]

Sweetsee,

1. Where is the rant about money machines?

2. This is the same problem you posted months ago. We gave you tons of advice then, and it's the same now.

Follow the advice, or live with the current situation without complaints, or leave your job. There are no other choices.

[AgentMulderUK]

The first thought that comes to my mind is....IF the job is as stressful as you have described, why put up with it? Get another job. There are plenty out there. I realise its a bit drastic, but perhaps its time to man the lifeboats?

It sounds like you are fighting a lost cause, either because the school's kids are just write-offs, or something about your approach isn't compatible with this particular job or school or the other staff members' attitudes.
(This is not meant as an insult or any kind of accusation)

Sweetsee, perhaps you are just too nice a person for them.
Be firm, be mean. It doesn't matter if they like you. You are not paid to be liked. Your mission is to make them respect you, grudgingly or otherwise.

Kids that age are constantly try to test you for any signs of weakness and will learn how to exploit them within moments.

I think your attempts to reason with them were admirable, but I think the assumption you made (that you could reason with them as adults) was probably not spot on here. I think many Japanese kids here are several years behind on the 'grown-up' scale as compared with western kids. They need to be kept in line. I suppose it's all part of the tight control-by-group thing that they have come to expect here. You give these kind of kids an inch and they will take a mile.

Have you considered teaching conversation classes with adults?

Good luck!

[Sweetsee]

AgentMulderUK,


Thanks for the inspiring reply, spot on.

I am not going to man the lifebooats just yet as I feel the situation is salvagable.

I have been teaching here for ages and truly believe if and when the gig is up here it will be out of Japan for us, no more language whoring for me here.

It is the first position in Japan that I look forward to going to work. Granted, there are a few boneheads but the good far outweighs the bad at this point.

Again thank you and I truly appreciate you taking your time to help me.

I let you know how it works out.


Sincerely,
sweetsee

[Sweetsee]

Glenski,


Big meanie!

You are right it is the same problem and for whatever reason I didn't get the advice right.

Would it be asking to much to re-cap some of those for me? I am slow.

Once again, you are either part of the problem or the solution.

Everyone offered kind words to me and really that is what helps me the most.

Again I want to express my deepest grattitude to all of you: Guest of Japan, AgentMulderUK, Stillnosheep and to you to Glenski. (I forgot someone, sorry)


All the best everybody, we can live, live a good, good life...and be free!

[einsenundnullen]

The truth is out there, and Agent Mulder has it.

[Glenski]

Big meanie? How old are you, 12?

Slow on the uptake does not mean you are unable to search for the original thread which YOU started on this in June.
http://www.eslcafe.com/forums/job/viewtopic.php?t=11138&highlight=management+sweetsee

I'll ask a second time...where is the rant about money machines that you state in the title of this thread?

[Sweetsee]

Ahh, tough love! I dig you man.

I'll be right back, 8:20 meeting.

[Sweetsee]

Glenski my main man,


I did get a skateboard for Christmas last year.

Thanks for that link, I will go back through there and you knew that I am just too lazy, so thanks, really.

The good news is, other than I really love this job, is that the whole thing seems to be completely isolated and the student is a big troublemaker.

Good. I want to stay here until I can save the dosh to make our lives better someplace else.


Peace you, I'll be back.

[JimDunlop2]

Glenski: As you put up a link to sweetsee's original request for advice in June, I followed the link and came up with one of your replies:

For girls with legs spread open, say NOTHING to them! Do NOTHING about it in class. If anything at all, report this behavior to the homeroom teacher, but be advised how it might look to him/her that you even noticed.


I'm just curious: if that is the case, would it not reflect badly on you, should you have observers come to your class? In the one JHS where I teach, I have had at least 1 VIP visit (prefectural education minister, school board superintendant, my BoE boss and other dignitaries). I was lucky as I was doing an activity where the kids were fairly well behaved, but I've noticed that students here don't do a 180 just because some suits are standing with clipboards at the back of the room. In addition, in both JHS schools where I teach, there are usually parent observation days. So no, the rude sitting posture wouldn't perturb me so much except for the fact that someone ELSE might notice this behavior... What do you think?

P.S. (off-topic) Paulh & Glenski.... Just curious -- did you get my PM message from a few days back?