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Bush wearing transmitter!!
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2 over lee



Joined: 07 Sep 2004
Posts: 1125
Location: www.specialbrewman.blogspot.com

PostPosted: Sun Oct 10, 2004 5:36 pm    Post subject: Bush wearing transmitter!! Reply with quote

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uselections2004/salon/0,14779,1323334,00.html

I sometimes found the Guardian site hard to get in China, hope this is not the case for those who look at this link.


I noticed this�lump� in the first presidential debate, but thought he was just a bit hunchbacked. I actually thought maybe he had a screen with written messages on his podium from the way he always paused and looked down, but no he was listening!!
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stillnosheep



Joined: 01 Mar 2004
Posts: 2068
Location: eslcafe

PostPosted: Sun Oct 10, 2004 5:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok. All is forgiven as far as your spat with 'Eric' is concerned. Still cannot equate Social Darwinism with Nazi eugenics though, though I can see how the latter could be manipulated in an attempt to back up the former.

It seems to me that the Republicans are simply playing the 'terrorist' card to stoke up fear in the hope that the old theory that fearful people vote for the right holds up. cf 'The Social Psychology of Fascism' or somesuch, by the guy who later posited the orgasmatron (his earlier work had more intellectual rigor) and that few people really seem to care whether Bush has a Brain as long as he can lull their fears by telling them that voting for them will make them strong and powerful and safe. I hope that I am wrong.

The orgasmatron... Now there was an idea. The idea being that right wing thinking/voting is a result of sexual frustration and that a device to collect, store and channel the orgones in the atmosphere so as to provide mind-blowing orgasms for all would help realise well-adjusted populations whose non-frustration would make them impervious to the fear stoking, power-promises of the right...
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2 over lee



Joined: 07 Sep 2004
Posts: 1125
Location: www.specialbrewman.blogspot.com

PostPosted: Sun Oct 10, 2004 6:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Still cannot equate Social Darwinism with Nazi eugenics though, though I can see how the latter could be manipulated in an attempt to back up the former.


I�m sorry to say that certain Germans in the 20th century could see it this way too.

I agree with you on Republican scare tactics.
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stillnosheep



Joined: 01 Mar 2004
Posts: 2068
Location: eslcafe

PostPosted: Mon Oct 11, 2004 4:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The key words were manipulated and attempt.

You will never undermine the fact of evolution by attempting to implicate it in the horrors of the holocaust. No matter how many raving-looney right-wing creationist websites you post links to.

The orgasmatron theorist and Social-pyschology (or Mass-pyschology) of Fascism author was Willhelm Reich. A very interesting Book. Recommended.
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2 over lee



Joined: 07 Sep 2004
Posts: 1125
Location: www.specialbrewman.blogspot.com

PostPosted: Mon Oct 11, 2004 5:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Right here we go. I didn�t check the websites carefully enough �sns�. I posted them with the purpose of showing that the Nazis used Social Darwinist theories as an excuse to persecute. ( I found them through a google search)
This fact is accepted by historians accross the political spectrum.

I am not a creationist and not right wing.

Would you like to make any comments about Bush and his transmitter?

Do not be a trolling baboon, who does not understand history.
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stillnosheep



Joined: 01 Mar 2004
Posts: 2068
Location: eslcafe

PostPosted: Mon Oct 11, 2004 6:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

2 over lee wrote:
I didn�t check the websites carefully enough �sns�. I posted them with the purpose of showing that the Nazis used Social Darwinist theories as an excuse to persecute. This fact is accepted by historians accross the political spectrum.

Do not be a trolling baboon, who does not understand history.


That the Nazis misused many theories does not make the theories inherently 'fascistic'. Please stop implying that other posters are using Nazi arguments when they argue for Social-Darwinism. Take on the arguments behind the theory.

Hitler misused many theories. Do not be a lazy poster who jumps from a (valid) statement to a (totally invalid) conclusion by illogical and illegitimate means.

I am not a baboon. Although on occason I may have a red arse.

Willhelm Reich anyone?
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2 over lee



Joined: 07 Sep 2004
Posts: 1125
Location: www.specialbrewman.blogspot.com

PostPosted: Mon Oct 11, 2004 6:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok so unless Robert actually starts taking Aussies to the gas chamber I can�t liken him to Adolf.

By the way I originally said this:

Quote:
I believe another big fan of social Darwanism was a certain ADOLF H, who used Darwin�s theories to say the Jews were inferior...

Why did they immigrate? Because they were Jews who were being persecuted by people who often expressed views very similar to the above poster.


I don�t call him a Nazi, I just liken his racism to that of the Nasis which I still think is accurate.
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stillnosheep



Joined: 01 Mar 2004
Posts: 2068
Location: eslcafe

PostPosted: Mon Oct 11, 2004 6:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

2 over lee: I don't think anyone else knows what's going on in this post anymore. Time we let it die, eh?
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Seth



Joined: 05 Feb 2003
Posts: 575
Location: in exile

PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2004 5:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

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Seth



Joined: 05 Feb 2003
Posts: 575
Location: in exile

PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2004 1:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i do agree it's highly unlikely that it's a transmitter, but it's funny to speculate. if it is a transmitter it's not helping him much.

bush did, however, have a cheat sheet in front of him that he flipped over halfway through the debate.
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nomadic



Joined: 14 Feb 2004
Posts: 118

PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2004 3:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Right here we go. I didn�t check the websites carefully enough �sns�. I posted them with the purpose of showing that the Nazis used Social Darwinist theories as an excuse to persecute. ( I found them through a google search)


Many, many people supported eugenics at one point, because there was a point in time where the notion seemed entirely viable (from a scientific standpoint, not a moral one!). Obviously the fields of evolution, genetics (especially so!) and natural selection have made considerable progress since then, and many of the same people who supported those theories back then would not do so in light of the current info.

Amongst these supporters, you can find some brilliant people like George Bernard Shaw and Francis Galton (he invented the word 'eugenics', combining the Greek words for 'good' and 'birth'), who happened to be a cousin of Darwin himself, I believe.

Without a doubt, eugenics, built upon the ideas of Social Darwinism and misunderstood principles, has been a horrible blight upon humanity, but an equally dangerous thing happens in this day and age. Partly due, I believe, to an over-reaction to the notion of (partial) genetic determinism, people like to believe that each and every one of us is, at birth, a blank slate waiting to be molded into a perfect child, then adult. But to deny the innate differences between one person and the next is to deny a large part of who you are.

Little bit of a soap box there, but I know of too many people who seem to think the lessons learned from the Nazis should be "Genetics, evolution, and all that newfangled science is EVIL", where in reality it should be something along the lines of (*) "Extremist ideologies are dangerous!" (Especially when they usurp science and nationalism for their own nefarious purposes!)

Cheers,
- nomadic

PS. Two interesting books for people to read:
"Genome", by Matt Ridley:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0060932902/qid=1097594569/sr=8-1/ref=pd_csp_1/103-9928696-5831046?v=glance&s=books&n=507846
"The Blank Slate", by Steven Pinker :
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0670031518/qid=1097594722/sr=2-1/ref=pd_ka_2_1/103-9928696-5831046

(*) PPS. Naturally there are other lessons to be learned as well, but I've rambled long enough!
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Dazai



Joined: 11 Oct 2004
Posts: 74

PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2004 3:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nomadic wrote:

Quote:
Extremist ideologies are dangerous


From reading the above argument I think this may have been what the OP was trying to say. Thanks for the ultra informative article by the way �nomadic�.

I actually post here becouse I would like to know if it it wasn�t a transmitter what was it Question

Apparantly in the first debate the media was not supposed to film the candidates from the back but did so anyway ( Bush also suffered as the media again broke rules to have a split screen where we could see Bush scowling at what Kerry said).
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2 over lee



Joined: 07 Sep 2004
Posts: 1125
Location: www.specialbrewman.blogspot.com

PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2004 3:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Robert Lubeck wrote:

Quote:
Personally I do not think anything pitched at the popular science level by the nativist, generativist Pinker is worth reading, especially not Tabula Rasa.


You prefer to spend your valuble time extrapolating the theories of Rudolf Hess in your writings on the history of Australia.
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nomadic



Joined: 14 Feb 2004
Posts: 118

PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2004 4:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Personally I do not think anything pitched at the popular science level by the nativist, generativist Pinker is worth reading, especially not Tabula Rasa.


By this, do you mean that you disagree with Pinker's notions entirely, or merely the explanation of them to the 'popular' audience? And is your dislike for his ideas limited to those focusing on linguistics, or human nature in general?

Cheers,
- nomadic
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2 over lee



Joined: 07 Sep 2004
Posts: 1125
Location: www.specialbrewman.blogspot.com

PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2004 5:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just as an aside, �Robert�, have you read either of the two new biographies on your hero there?

Also despite all the Bush bashing I really think Kerry may have sealed his own doom in voting for the war. Kerry seems to me to say Bush�s only mistake was to rush, and he would have given the UN a little longer. What then, given he voted for this war, would he have done if the UN hadn�t changed its position in this �extra time�? His argument seems weak to me.

And yes we ( I�ll take this liberty as the voices in my head are screaming for their rights again) are all amused by the Orwellian spin you�re putting on things.
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