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[MW]

From the Chin Dynasty until this century, Confucianism was the leading force in shaping social ethics in China. (Chen Ying) Confucius taught that a peaceful and prosperous society was possible if everyone from pauper to prince adhered to the same virtues of honesty, courtesy and loyalty. (China Daily, Hong Kong Edition, (6/02)

However, from the Han period through to the Qing dynasty, the Imperial examinations for civil servants proved the breeding grounds for �guanxi�. The zeal to succeed and become a civil servant caused many a person to resort to cheating on the Imperial examinations, which required rote memorization for honest success. (Crozier, Justin (6/02) The Imperial examinations were the key to a person�s life success or perceived failure e.g. fail the examinations and fail in life. A great deal of pressure was placed upon the individual to pass the examinations by any means available. Cheating became endemic.

Confucianism ended when Mao Tse-Tung unified China and verbalized a new concept of morality, "morality begins at the point of a gun." � Mao Tse-Tung, 20th-century revolutionary founder of modern China.

When the Communist Party came into power in China it brought with it the socialist philosophy of Georg Wilhelm Friedrich Hegel and Karl Marx, which is completely devoid of any concept of social morality. (Katsiaficus, George (4/79) Marxism holds that economic structure determines everything in human society, including morality, ethics, and the right to private property; the only thing shaping society is the material forces of productivity. (Caldwell, Joseph George (2003) The concept of personal integrity and social responsibility was transformed into a socialist collective mentality where the work unit shouldered the moral responsibility rather than the individual within any particular unit. �Guanxi� survived the unification of China under Mao.

The social morality of Confucius, tempered by �guanxi,� was replaced with �a moral� politics and law tempered by �guanxi.� Moral education was replaced with political education (Chen Ying op.cit) described by John Zane (pseudonym) (Universidat Oldenberg) as �Communism here is seen as a sort of morality which sets norms for behavior. To be a communist or Marxist is the same as to be a good person. Based on communist ideas, the Chinese government tries to educate people to be collectivistic. During the whole process of political education, individualism and "capitalist liberalization" are severely criticized. The model of a good person is the one who is loyal to the party, is ready to sacrifice himself for the party and the people, and dedicates himself to the cause of "socialist construction.") Then the "campaign against the four oldies" denied all morality. (Chen Ying op. cit.)

In 1980, with the founding of the Society for the Studies of Ethics at Wuxi, Jiangsu, China entered a period of socialist market morality which is still developing today. (Chen Ying op.cit.) This market morality is just an extension of what is considered to be Marxism.Today, China is classified as a developing Country, which normally refers to its economic status in the world community. However, China is also developing its social society (Qiang/Wolff, (4/03) and in this social development context is searching for the moral compass by which it will chart its future course for the development of a society with �high ideals and morality.� (Chen Ying op. cit.)

[Dragon]

Dear Comrade,
Once again, at the failure of being redundant we thank you for your insight into the ESL Industry.
Dragon

[Bill Shagley]

You have spent a long time writing things that are obvious. Why are you doing this? I can only assume that it is to further polish your already well-honed writing skills.

[Roger]

You say that communism is devoid of ethics and morality, but it has always been my impression that communist societies were relatively free from the scourge of greed-inspired crime. Not that "New Person" was invented, but rather that circumstances were such that you could not distinugish yourself from your peers by having better products. Where there is no choice between different qualities people don't have as strong an incentive to steal. On the other hand, anyone who has ever set foot in a socialist-type communal dining-hall knows about the people's propensity at wasting food that's essentially free for members! That I saw even in Israeli kibbutzim, and I still see it in Chinese canteens!

I thought Confucianism basically was a social order that mainytained and concentrated power in the hands of a mandarinate with its spongers. There have always been benevolent dictators, and Hong Kong's former British colonial administration often was likened to an "enlightened autocracy", but it legitimises nepotism, cruelty and abuse of power more than any other form of rule does.

China's society has always lacked a spiritual counterweight to the sovereign that has ruled it. No wonder Kong Qiu came to be a deity, as did Mao Zedong. Even Qin Shi Huangdi is now a venerated member of China's pantheism.
While I certainly admire Chinese' flexible mind on who was a "great' leader, I am afraid the man and the woman in the street does not know the rules of good conduct, moral behaviour, ethics. They will always need a strong "leader" to tell them.

All "great" men leave many unsolved problems behind upon their death. If people have no control over their own destiny nor over who rules their country, then abrupt changes are inevitable.

After Mao's death, Deng liberalised the country, right?
People were given choices they never knew to exist before: Jobs, marriages, locations, lifestyles, entertainment...
But, inevitably, this softening-up also led to new problems:
"China is having trouble finding enough work to keep a billion pairs of hands busy. Most workplaces are overmanned, but there are still a lot of young people 'waiting forwork'. There seem to be two sorts of crime involved in the wave (crime wave: added by me): street crime such as theft, rape murder, illegal money changing and procuring of goods, prostitution, mainly attributable to young people; and larger scale economic crimes such as misallocation of funds, bribery, embezzlement, nepotism, attributable to corruption among the cadres."
(Extract from "Watching the Dragon", pages 114/115, Charles and Jill Hadfield, British ESL teachers in 1983).

Conclusion: Either China stagnated in its age-old ways (that we in the West overcame some time before, though not all of them);
or else it starts adopting some of our tested and tried enlightened methodologies of running a national community! Who says it has to adopt the same type of government lock, stock and barrel?

[chinasyndrome]

MW and Roger,

Well done, both of you! Bill makes an interesting note about well-honed writing skills. You both present ideas very clearly, which is a nice change from some of the redneck ramblings that seem to drag on in this forum.

The numbnuts who don't like it CAN move on to another thread but they don't WANT to because they've got nothing to add and no one wants to talk to them anyway. That's why they spend their time hunting posters who they can flame; it's they only way they know to get someone to 'play' with them.

So, okay, sometimes the topic on offer is common knowledge, but it can also act as a good reminder. In smaller cities or villages where some of our foreign brethren work, this forum keeps them in touch with others (like?) them, the more intelligent posts help them keep their own language skills up (especially if they're involved in teaching very basic English on a daily basis), they can perhaps add elements to their own classroom methods, or even use sections as topics to encourage discussion and debate.

Thanks guys! I enjoyed your writing and appreciate your efforts.

[MW]

Sometimes we tend to overlook the obvious. (Can't see the forrest for the trees are in the way.) And obvious to whom? There are many newbies who are experiencing things and wonderring if it is them, or something they said or did. Sharing from caring is never a waste of time.

[Billy]

[MW]

Billy -

My phrase meaning and spelling is just as I meant it!

I did not use quotes as I was not quoting. Ever hear of paraphrasing or parody or political license or literary license?

Well, I was not using any of them either.

I said what I meant and meant what I said.

[Dragon]

Dear Comrade MW,
They are again attacking you. I have never seen anyone attacked so much on this forum. Why
You obviously know they correct writing style as we all read your posts entirely through. We hang on every word. Please do not stop you will overwhelm them with posts and grind them into dust with this FACILITATION METHOD!
Dragon

[senor boogie woogie]

Hola!

The Communist theory of economics has been thown out of China. It has been thrown out for over 15 years now.

China is one of the most capitalistic countries on Earth. The citizens of China can freely travel wherever they wish, as long as they do not hold any military secrets (which is very few and far between). Get a passport and go. One can quit a job and go to another one here. Small business exists in China and it rises or falls due to the economic forces in the country. China is a third world country, a lot of poor people making nothing and a few people living large living in luxury houses behind walls driving Audis, BMWs and Mercedes cars. I am selfish here as a foreigner. I want to stay.

"Guanxi" or the 'good old boys network' has never been replaced. Nor it will ever be God willing. Guanxi is the respect for the boss in any given situation and what that boss may grant you in the future. China is a dictatorship of the rich, connected and powerful. The middle class can achieve this stage through cunning or original thinking.

Chinese communism is supported by the middle class, the upper class and the filthy rich. The Communist party provides protection from the masses. This is not Communism as Marx envisioned it. The population of China is 75% percent poor, 20% middle class and 5% rich. The middle class have to pay ahouse/rental payment, bills, car payment, and food, just like any poor schmuck in the USA. The poor make maybe make 20-50 RMB a day if lucky. The people who work at McDonalds make 500-600 RMB a month for a 30 hour week. I can make 600 RMB in 4-6 hours teaching kindy and farting around. For me, this is what makes the economy great. The rich pay me a good salary, and this poor salary (by western standards) allows me to live well.

I have a Chinese wife here. Personally, I want this country to be democratic or return to a constitutional monarchy (never happen). If this happens however, prices would go out of sight. I would not be able to afford rent or food because they would be subject to market prices, which would throw the country into chaos and anarchy.

China has to feed 1.3 Billion people. In a land area similiar th the USA with 25% arable farmland. To put this in context, there are more people newborn to age 14 than the population of the United States. I support the one child policy (NOT ABORTION, but happens at an alarming pace, especially towrds girls). China, because of practices and beliefs of the past and present is up against a wall. A strong willed central government is the only way to feed the masses and keep everything in line. I am not a follower of the system, it is just the best that the Chinese can offer now.

I love Chinese people. They have been very good and kind to me. This is a wonderful dynamic culture that is trying to pull from out from under.

SENOR

[Billy]

[hubei_canuk]

Mr. Boogie-Woogie.
You have a good understanding. Yes, communism has only one meaning, that is POWER.. and it's associated corruption and oppression of humanity.
It's ideals and theories have never meant anything except as an excuse to sieze power. It has always been one big hollow sham, like the wizard of OZ.
I think also i would add to your analysis of the structure that in times of stress or crisis, power reverts or centers in the very very few who start waves of executions downwards to reconsolidate their hold on power. In a nutshell that is the history of the CCP.
..
But very good point. It's all wonderful for us expats here. The living is cheap the flattery is endearing, the opportunities for social contact extensive.
It's a wonderful life. We colonialists or exploitative capitalists would be so unfortunate if we didn't have some third world to go party in. I do swear sometimes i think the progress in China is too much and there are too many foreigners coming here that i think it's about time to find some poorer country to go to.
Thime to go get lunch , gee maybe i'll spend 10 or 20 cents canadian.

[arioch36]

Comrade MW, I am disappointed that your Confucian (Kongzi) training is so lacking. Ou great country has never been a Confucian state. It wasn't during the time of Confucious, as Konzi himself often said. His follower Mengzi (Mencius) followed, mostly, the principals of Kongzi, which calls for the minimum of state interference. Xunzi, a little younger then Mengzi, argued that man was innately bad, and that power must be given to the state, and the state should/must force men to be good. However, he also despaired that the Way would ever be found on earth (Kongzi main ideal...a king that rectifies himself, thus bringing the Way of Heaven to earth. What aspect of Cunfucianism are you possibly referring to?

This was taken even further with the pholosophers advocating extreme state power in the Qin dynasty. This is the model that Our glorious government has since followed. The only thing that Mengzi and Xunzi had in common was a deep suspicion of those who seek to make profit.

Of course, comrade MW, you and I know that our government is
only pretending to worship capitalism now. Once we lure the capitalist tyrannical powers such as the US to a false sense of security and dependency on our goods, then we shall rise. Until then, this should be a state secret. If you continue exposing our secrets on this forum, our secret confederate, Dave, shall have to ban you.

[chinasyndrome]

Arioch! What a great post! You're beginning to sound like a highly articulate Drag On! Thanks...Comrade!

[J.D.]

There is a theory expressed in two other post threads that Dragon and MW are one and the same person. After reading this thread can we speculate that Arioch36 is just another alias for Dragon/MW?