Job Discussion Forums

[Rachael]

Hey All

I've seen a lot of postings about argentina vs. chile, peru vs. ecuador, panama vs. costa rica, but I'm wondering if anybody can speak to any of the broader differences between countries in Central America and those in South America. Where is it easier to get a job? How different are the hiring calendars? Where is the cost of living cheaper? How much do the qualities of life differ? Any notable cultural differences?

I realize that a lot of this will probably depend on specific countries, but I thought I'd put the question out there. Personally, I'm most interested in Panama and Argentina at the moment. I'd leave for LA fall of this year or next winter.

Thanks for any help you can give me!

Rachael

[Twisting in the Wind]

It all depends on what you're looking for, Rachael. I can't speak to the teaching end of things as I have never taught in Latin America, but I have travelled extensively and worked in other fields in Central and South America.

Let me break it down for you this way--there are countries with a vibrant, open, proud indian culture, and countries without. The former would be:
Parts of Mexico
Guatemala
Ecuador
Peru
Bolivia

The latter would be all the rest (Because in the other countries th indian culture was largely extirpated with the coming of the conquistadores, and/or surpressed--repressed since then)

That is not to say that the other countries have no indian culture--it is just more "underground" or relegated to certain parts of the country.

What are you interested in? Does indian culture (Cultura indijena) interest you? For me, I was very interested in Folkloric Andean music--I studied the charango (small 10 stringed "guitar" and also zampona and quena and the music.

IF Indian culture does not interest you or you don't care, maybe let's divide the countries into "purity of Spanish spoken"--that's important to some people. BY popular consesus, these are the countries with the purist SPanish (best, most standard, easiest to understand for foreigners)
Colombia
Mexico
El Salvador

"Worst" Spanish---meaning hard to understand, atypical slang or cadence, non-standard)
Cuba
Chile
Nicaragua
Honduras
Panama
**Argentina**---BEAUTIFUL Spanish, but spoken with an Italian "brogue" Once you attune yur ear to it, it is rather easy. Argentines speak not too fast, but with their own slang, as do all the countries

All the other countries, IMO fall into a continuum somewhere between these extremes

Or perhaps you could divide them up as to most friendly to gringos vs least friendly

Most friendly
Mexico
Argentina

least Friendly (IMO) based on my albeit limited experience
Colombia
certain Central American countries with a history of US meddling and United Fruit Company abuse of their working force: Honduras, Nicaragua, Costa Rica, Panama, Venezuela, Ecuador

But I've found that in most places most people still respect the INDIVIDUAL and do not hold a person accountable for the misdeeds of his ancestors or country.

Well, maybe breaking down the countries in these ways will help you to get started identifying the region you would be most comfortable in. Good luck, and feel free to PM me!

Twistie

[Twisting in the Wind]

Upon re-reading your and my posts, I would have to say that it's not all that simple to make a disinction between: CENTRAL (and)
SOUTH

Americas

The distinction lies elsewhere--not just in the geography. I've heard it said, tho I disagree, that
"Central America has no culture."

For various historical and political reasons, some of the native cultures of Central America no longer exist openly (except in Guatemala). There is gente indijena in the other Central American countries, but they tend to wear western clothing and not be as obvious or colorful.

[MixtecaMike]

Not wanting to pick a fight here (really sincerely I mean this) but do you think that indigenous people, or gente indigena (with a "g") need to wear "colorful clothes" and be "obvious and open"?

These are living breathing thinking feeling people, not just some sort of tourist attraction to brighten up your photo page.

I am possibly the most politically incorrect person in this forum, but these comments even raised my eyebrows.

[moonraven]

Well, they raised mine, too, Mike--even though Ravens don't have eyebrows....

I smell "lo folcl�rico", Twistie--and it's a bad smell.

"Indigenismo" stinks, too.

Those two misguided perceptions and attitudes have done incalculable damage to the rights of native peoples here in Latin America.

[Twisting in the Wind]

Well, I certainly didn't mean to raise anybody's hackles here, and if I did so, I sincerely apologize.

Actually, when I posted I thought if maybe I should word it another way. The OP seemed to be asking a very elementary question and I was trying to give some perspectives and guidance for looking at Central vs South America to someone who maybe had never been there before.

[moonraven]

Hackles--the word is hackles.

I think you made some revealing slips--not as in undergarments, but in freudian.

[Twisting in the Wind]

[Twisting in the Wind]

[Twisting in the Wind]

[moonraven]

Folcl�rico is an attitude of "desprecio" in regard to indigenous cultures--as Mike indicated, native people are not living their lives to present photo ops for tourists.

"Indigenismo" is just as toxic--only instead of originating in the reflex action of the tourist's camera (pun abslutely intended) it has other origins.
Here's a brief rundown of some of them by Marc Becker of UC Berkeley:

"Historically, paternalistic impulses which saw Indigenous peoples as passive receivers of outsiders' actions have been the driving force behind indigenismo. At different points in history it has been the domain of various groups of people including archaeologists, anthropologists, theologians, novelists, philosophers, politicians, and political activists. In his book Indigenismo, Jorge Alejandro Ovando Sanz writes that "indigenismo is the theory of members of the Latin American oligarchy to stop and repress the indigenous peoples' liberation movement."[1] Historian Pedro Chamix criticizes an academic indigenismo that "takes the Indians into a laboratory to study them in terms of their physical appearance, family names, dress, language, customs" with a resulting analysis that is contained "in hundreds of publications and books in English, German, or French, and only later translated into Spanish without any political utility."[2] Juan Bottasso notes in the introduction to Del indigenismo a las organizaciones ind�genas that Indigenous peoples do not favorably view indigenistas who analyze their status from the perspective of a dominant class and seek to integrate them into a modern nation-state. He writes that these Indigenous peoples "reject the presence of intermediators and deny that people who do not belong to their cultural world have the right to speak in their names or, worse, represent them."[3] Employing stronger language, Adolfo Colomdres calls indigenismo nothing other than ethnocide.[4] Similarly, Indigenous organizations have also consistently taken a stance against indigenist ideologies. Indigenous delegates gathered at the Second Conference of Indian Nations and Organizations of South America in Tiwanaku, Bolivia, in 1983 declared that "Indigenismo must be rejected because it corresponds to the ideology of oppression. Since its origin," the statement continued, "it has served the racist interests of governments, missionaries, and anthropologists."[5]

Indigenismo was always a construction of the dominant culture, particularly that of elite intellectual mestizos who used Indigenous issues to advance their own political agendas. Les Field has noted that although indigenismo "has characterized anti-hegemonic intellectual currents," is also "may have played a more significant role in serving as a means for political and economic elites to appropriate indigenous cultures for nation-building ideologies that end up maintaining the subaltern status of indigenous peoples."[6]

I hope that you understand why, as a Native American, I felt my feathers ruffle at your description.

No one is accusing you of malice, Twistie--just that you're not as knowledgable in this area as you seem to think you are.

[Twisting in the Wind]

[moonraven]

You may use the term "ind�gena"--but be careful that you do not use it in a patronizing way.

Native people do not consider themselves to be exhibits in a zoo.

[Twisting in the Wind]

[moonraven]

Glad to hear that....