Job Discussion Forums

[marblez]

I hear so much about people having trouble finding jobs in Vancouver, however I have seen SO MANY job openings eg. http://www.educationcanada.com

Any inside info? Is it the PDP that really makes the difference?

[GambateBingBangBOOM]

Yes, it is. With a provincial k-12 qualification, you can get a stable, full time job in the government-run education system (teaching things other than ESL usually).

There are many jobs for ESL at language institutes, but most are part time, or short term or both. This is because there are SO many people with qualifications running around trying to get a job in Canada. And there are also so many pseudo-qualifications that may only just barely squeek by the TESL Canada bar, or else don't squeek by, but private langauge schools are private and can hire whoever they want, for as little as they can get away with.

It may change in the future when the market is so full of crap certs that ESL students start looking to see the qualifications their teachers have, and researching what those qualifications really mean. Employers will be forced to hire only people with real training when students stop showing up because of their teachers' lack of decent training, and then as the number of people available for jobs drops, employers will have to do things like offer full-time jobs with benefits and something that approaches a half-decent standard of living for teachers will become available.

In Ontario, it takes a year to get trained to teach ESL (as well as having a degree), if you want to get certified with TESL Ontario. It also takes a year (after an undergraduate degree) at a real college or university to get trained to be an HR person, a PR person, a publishing person, a computer person (in one of many capacities), a k-6/4-10/7-12 teacher or many, many other things. If you approach a PR agency, for example, without a degree in Journalism/ Communications and/or a year long certificate in Corporate Communications (AKA Public Relations) your chances of finding a job are just about nil. That doesn't always happen in the fabulous world of ESL teaching in Ontario, where volunteer housewives who have well-paid husbands are often used. In fact, you would be hard pressed to even find training in one of the above mentioned areas outside of the college/university system. And yet, if you look you can see "TESOL" training courses offered by language schools and private providers throughout the country. The fact that so many people believe that you can be taught to do this in anywhere from a four day course to a month or so shows the credibility of ESL teaching as a career in Canada. You can be taught basic jargon, methods of how to find a job and some basic things to do in the classroom (like "smile") in a weekend or a month or whatever. But then, over a weekend, you can be taught how to format a press release and what an integrated communications project is and what head, body and tag/campaign line means. That doesn't mean you are a professional PR person.

A hundred available jobs may seem like a lot until you realize that there are a hundred people looking for each of those hundred available jobs because even the people who already have jobs need further employment if they need to pay rent or eat.

[marblez]

Thanks for the reply.

I am worried because I will graduate with my BA in August 2006, which is creeping up fast! I am going to take my professional teaching certificate, and would just like to be sure that it will give me an excellent advantage.

Since my fiance is beginning a BSc in Engineering, I will be the breadwinner for the next 4 years. I'm just scared, since he has been our "support" for the past little while. I hope I can get a decent job.

[GambateBingBangBOOM]

Definately get the qualification that will allow you to work in a regular high school or elementary school (or junior high, if those are common in BC- they aren't in Ontario), if you can get in (in Ontario, only one in ten get in- so if it's anything like a similar percentage in BC, get a back-up plan! And a back-up, back-up plan, too!).

It'll be a little tight trying to support two of you off of a single new teacher's salary (your fiance can get a part time job for weekends or whatever, though and there are tutoring jobs available for people with provincial certs) but it'll be vastly better than trying to get by on a single earnings potential of an ESL teacher in Canada without k-12 certification.

I don't know what the need is like for teachers within the public system in BC right now, though, so Iam assuming there are jobs. THere should be information seminars at your university from the Faculties of Education from around the province- and also possibly from people trying to get applicants for one year PGCEs (Post Graduate Certificate in Education) in the UK, Australia and New Zealand, as well as maybe someone from programs in the US specifically for people who want to teach in BC (those are the other groups that show up in Ontario, except of course the schools in the US are from New York state and are specific to people wanting to teach in Ontario b/c only one in ten who applies can get in, and yet there is a major problem in education because more people are leaving than entering- not everybody out of that 10% who applies actually decides to be a teacher in Ontario- and a huge percentage of the current teachers is very close to retirement age).

[Finnegan]

Dear GBB-Boom,

Here is BC (and I'm from Ont), it is quite awful for people entering the public education system. Everyone awaits the huge exodus of retirees from the system, but until and even if, this happens, there is a dearth of jobs. I am facing this prospect as someone in the middle of career changes from health care (sadly a similar tune), but who loves education. I am going to stick around to listen to this forum. I am a newbie here.

[marblez]

[Finnegan]

Dear Marblez,

Not sure if I understand what you mean in your sentence:

"It does seem that quite a few special education openings are abound."

Please help.

[marblez]

Sorry if I was unclear, I mean that there are numerous special education teaching positions available.

[Finnegan]

Dear Marblez,

I quote you,

"Sorry if I was unclear, I mean that there are numerous special education teaching positions available."

I have no idea where you are looking because it is not in BC. It is tough enough for folks to get full-time, permanent teaching jobs (here) in K-12. As for Special Education, do you read the newspaper or what? I mean, sorry to be harsh but if you are applying this much investigation to sniff out jobs here, I would hate to think of how hooped you might be finding yourself overseas and working illegally, blah, blah, blah. Check your souces mon. Look up the BC school districts, or talk to someone from BCTF. TALK TO SOME TEACHERS AND RECENT GRADUATES. Funding has been cut and for the majority of new grads in BC, they will be looking at an extended gig of TOC'ing (Teacher on call=substitute teacher) for 1 or more years--and not surprisingly some up to three years before getting a 'real' teaching job, going elsewhere, or saying #@*% it, and doing something else. So, just to be sure that you are clear, if you are trying to find a teaching gig overseas, then you are in the right place to find out. If however you are considering anything to do with BC, then your BA will not mean much even with a Teaching certificate in terms of getting ANY kind of teaching job (full-time) in BC. If you think otherwise, you are way wrong.
http://www.bcpsea.bc.ca/public/careers/teacherlistings.html#special
http://www.bctf.bc.ca/

[marblez]

Well, I might as well quit university while I am ahead, eh? There goes that lifelong dream! Let me call Radio Shack and see if they have any vacant positions. So then why do any of us bother?

[Finnegan]

Dear Marblez,

Radio Shack may not have vacancies by the time you are ready. Hello. Guess what? Dream the dreams until reality hits and you feel hooped.

Why bother? That is a big question. Here is my brief reply. I went to university FOR ME. My education, my choice, my debt. I did this long before there was ever any thought of employment. When you were accepted into your BA, did they promise you employment? Was there any discussion whatsoever of specific employment prospects with any university official? Not likely. So why did you go? Did you not speak with and hear from all the sources--the media for example, full of stories of university graduates using their BA's for nothing related to why they entered the program--and unemployed?

Education is hopefully something that those privilaged enough to obtain (becoming an increasingly elite few) will be so passionate about that they (we) infect others with the need to learn. The economy is out of our hands, so looking at a general education degree such as a BA as attractive to employers is simply naive. Having a BEd on top would have been helpful in other times, but now is not then. Now, if you wish to be a teacher in BC, as a new grad, with only a BA under your belt, you are looking at a long haul as a TOC. Period.

[marblez]

What do you think the prospects for a BSc in Mathematics (w/teaching certificate) would be? Much better? I'm at the crossroads where I can still choose which one.

[Finnegan]

Dear Marblez,

Generally (and perhaps somewhat unfortunately), science/technology is more sought after than the arts. Probably a math degree would put you in a better position, but a BA, and a BSc in math are light-years apart. Usually the student who chooses one or the other as an undergraduate path, is one or the other 'type' of learner. I am not sure of the wisdom in choosing which degree/discipline on the basis of what teaching jobs might be present following not only this degree, but the BEd to follow. The point somewhere is that whichever route, be prepared for a long haul.

[Finnegan]

Dear Marblez,

I forgot to include this website--it is for teaching in BC:
--it is actually a bunch of sites...
http://www.bctf.ca/education/recruiting/JobSearch/JobSearchLinks.html

[marblez]

I like both disciplines... I used to think that I was terrible at math (infact I repeated it 3x in grade 9), however, a crazy Iranian statistics professor sparked my interest last year in university. I've been doing them as electives for fun(!) ever since, receiving B+ and A- grades. Call me crazy, but I just want to be a teacher, and I don't really mind what discipline it is.

PS Thanks for the help