Job Discussion Forums

[gerard]

OK I am showing my relative newbie status asking this but I get better advice here than I do from the Chinese people I know. And I am a bit of a loner- no other awaygooks in this town. So when I am cycling around I will hear "laowai." Is it just people telling their friend HEY that was a foreigner or is there more to it??? Sometimes people alone will say it. It is the word I hear most with ni xinali? Or is it like at home where saying stranger might be friendly or venomous depending on the tone of voice??? I am going out ballroom dancing and drinking now so I will check back later. (I may be paranoid but it doesn't mean they aren;t out to get me.)

[hubei_canuk]

"Laowai" ...not in itself.
But .. i guess, speaking from Taiwan experience where i heard it a lo, t..what I found offensive was the attitude thatt accompanied it was as regarding a thing or object rather than a person.

[baby predator]

You know that cartoon about 'what dogs hear' where the human shouts at the dog and all the dog can hear is 'blah blah Rover, blah, blah blah walkies'? Just substitute 'laowai' for 'Rover' and 'walkies' and substitute 'foreigner in China' for the dog.

Better take some Chinese classes pronto if you wanna understand the genuinely insulting things being said about you

[MartinK]

...

[Explorer]

What might constitute "fighting words," is not determined by the deliverer but by the recipient. That's why we don't, for instance, call women girls any more. Slap!!! They don't like it.

I did not find it offensive to be called lao wai at first, but after hearing it repeatedly from giggling young men, it started to wear.

But this requires more than a Western perspective. In China it is customary to state the obvious. If you are returning home from work at the same time as always, you will be asked (in Chinese), "Are you off from work?" So even if everyone sees that a foreigner is walking down the street, it is culturally incumbent upon someone to state, "lao wai." No offense meant, so none should be taken.

Should you be offended if they point and giggle at the same time? They might just be nervous. Let it slide.

I generally ignore calls of "lao wai." However, when I hear "wai guo ren," I smile and nod.

[hubei_canuk]

The first time i came to China i was in a large restaurant and i needed to go to the WC so i went and asked the staff in my best chinese where it was.
And they all stood there and giggled and laughed for 5 minutes while i asked them over and over again, thinking they couldn't understand me.
..
Finally, the manager came along and without a word she motioned and barked to one of the staff who took me to... guess where ? The W.C.
..
Proving they had known all along what i wanted and had regarded me as an amusing enjoyable thing or maybe an embarrassing object, but whatever not as a human being with needs.
...
And those needs were rather painful as i was not used to China's food.
============
As for many of the "laowai'" salutes, when i would engage them in Chinese (as i could speak it) they often did not respond as if they regarded me as a human but as an object.
+++++++++++++
Imaginary conversation: "This foreigner is interesting, he says he is dying from a knife wound."
"How interesting! I guess that accounts for all the blood! What country is he from?"

[arioch36]

Intersting you can't say coc k but you can swear with the Lord's name. Oh well, as some have said about the Chinese government, at least Dave's is trying to do something.

I would rather avoid posting on the same place as HC, but that's impossible. Like Sunaru said, it is in how they say it. Also the giggling....sometimes it is nervousness. The boy really wants to talk to you, but is scared, and his friends near him laugh at him, so he passes it off as a joke, or waits until you are gone by, so if you don't reply, he doesn't lose face.
Sometimes it is childish bravado, similar to the men who whistle and make rude comments to women as they walk by. Compared to that we've got it easy. Keep it in perspective.

Occassionally I think it is hate, the Chinese young person who hates himself because he never studied, has no future, and seing you reminds him of that, so he tries to be rude. Be friendly to those who are friendly, walk away from those who aren't.

Today I met some teens in the supermarket (Only high school students are immune from SARS, and are able to leave campus freely) I walked by they pointed and giggled. I felt they were not trying to be rude, just shy, so when I pased by, I said Ni hao. We talked a little, they were friendly, gave one boy and one girl an english name. And yeah, I think I did provide kind of high point to there day. They felt good about themselves that they talke with me. Easy way to earn some brownie points with the man upstairs.

Go how your heart leads you on this one, you will probably be right. Let the bad ones be like water off a duck's back. Let some of them be like a dog sniffing you hand, let the friendly ones have some time to build up some courage, and you can have some nice times with them

One man 's opinions

Chris in henan

[Seth]

Chinese definately like to state the obvious. For the longest time I wondered what the teachers in the dining hall yammered on and on about. It always seemed to be a lively conversation. One day I sat close and tried to understand everything I could and the conversations went like this:
'These green peppers are really green today.'
'Yes, and the rice is a little sticky.'
'Well, I like the rice like this.'
'This chicken is very good.'
'Yes, I like chicken.'
'me too.'
'I bought come chicken last week, it was 5 yuan.'
'Sometimes I buy chickens for less, but it's usually a smaller chicken.'
'This green bean soup is good.'
'I'm thirsty.'
'Me too.'

Lao isn't necessarily a respectful term. It's often used with animals, such as 'laohu' (tiger) and 'Laoshu' (mouse). It's the same lao as in laowai. I'd say it's used more in that way, not in the venerated way. We are strange creatures, after all.

Better than yang guizi, I guess.

[Roger]

Yes, it is stating the obvious, although you can do that in various ways: Waiguoren, laowai, guilau. There is a pecking order - we the Chinese, you the outsiders. Within the Chinese family, first come the (Han-)Chinese, followed by Manchus, Mongolians, TIbetans, Hui, and the many others.

I think socialism has made people somewhat more coarse as proles have been the natiion's dictator class. If I remember well, people in taiwan behaved a lot more politely than Chinese in the PRC do. A term like "laowai" can be heard less often; in addition, in CHina you also have to put up with being called a "guilau", which clearly is derogatory.
Ah, derogatory - it is all in the context. If a nation feels outsiders are below their own cultural level then their language will reflect that. Typically, all "foreigners" are lumped together in CHinese. Chinese immigrants in Western countries even think locals are "foreigners" in their own countries!

[randyj]

In my opinion the words themselves have a fairly neutral meaning. No one should feel offended by them. On the other hand, I do not consider the phrase particularly good manners in the sense it suggests an overfamiliarity and a lack of due respect. Reflect on who has used the phrase and in what context. You may decide the speaker has not benefited from good breeding.

[hubei_canuk]

Oh yeah, that reminds me: Got off the train in GZ one day and i heard one taxi driver say to the other: "There's a guilau.. make some money off him"!
I often tell peoplel i am NOT a
"wai guo ren" i am a "wai xing ren"
What country am i from? why "huo xing" of course!

..
just trying to make everyone's life a little more interesting.
... something like a "zen" johnny appleseed.

[Chairman Roberto]

Oh, they teach 'em early. I've heard 2 years old kids (they're just starting to walk and talk) point up to me and say "laowai laowai" in perfect Putonghua. Suddenly, they're not so cute anymore. 2 years of age is about the time they start littering as well.

Regardless of the culture, old habits are hard to break. Foreigners will always remain weird creatures to the Chinese, and I'm afraid I'm with HC on this one...we are not human beings with feelings. It is only when a Chinese person has a meaningful interaction with a foreigner...students at your school, that nice lady at your favorite street eatery, a taxi driver who gets to know you a little better...that it occurs to the Chinese mind that "Hey, these big nosed, shaggy faced, blue eye devils came into this world the same way we did!"

I would love to be idealistic in the "educate one person at a time" mentality, but that idealism goes out the window when these yahoos stick their head out the cars screaming "Hahloooo Hahloooo!" or when a person just gapes at you when you're having a conversation on the street.

To their credit, I have several friends who feel badly about this boorishness. These students and teachers have walked with me down the street...and then realize the daily idiocy I just shrug off. They have literally walked a mile in my shoes. And it is these EMPATHETIC Chinese that make me stay in China. These people are, almost invariably, the renegades. The students who study English independently (listening to the BBC, actually reading literature), teachers sick and tired of the textbooks, people who realize English is a language to be used, not a series of formulas to memorize, regurgitate, and forget. It takes empathy to realize that about a language, and empathy, I believe, is the first step toward intellectual development.

But I flew off on a tangent, and venting again about a country I do genuinely love. What I fail to mention is that MOST Chinese in my town DON'T scream or stare at me, and most vendors always give me a smile and a fair price. I need to remember that the next time some twit goes off on me. And sometimes that nice lady at my favorite eatery does say "laowai laowai!" but it's out of affection, not contempt or fear. And it's then I don't mind being called Old Foreigner.

Roberto

[Redfivestandingby]

Well said, Roberto!!!

It is sort of a balancing act. Sometimes the intent is mean and sometimes it's sincere shock to see a non-Asian looking being.

I usually attribute the laowai call as insulting when it comes from the pack of young men who are hanging around with nothing to do. I stay away from them.

[HappyTown]

I work at a Uni' that has perhaps fifteen foreign teachers. ALL of the students have a native speaker led English class in their first year, regrdless of subject. The student s who know me are great and very polite, but, walk around the campus for any length of time and you are bound to hear someone (usually a male student) anonymously call out 'LaoWai' or 'WaiGuoRen' sooner or later...I just think 'get over it already, you probably saw me yesterday, and will see me again tomorrow too...'

[gerard]

I just returned from dancing and drinking with the rich and the beautiful. Some excellent stuff here thank you,., If my school weren't such tightass I would print them out and read them over and over.