Job Discussion Forums

Brooks · Joined: 16 Jan 2003 Posts: 1369 Location: Sagamihara

what is better about working at a university? What is better about secondary schools (specifically high schools)? Which students are more enjoyable to teach? I have thought about working at a university in the future.

Brooks

Glenski · Joined: 15 Jan 2003 Posts: 12844 Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN

I guess my first answer is a question... better than what?

Universities offer higher salaries than most other institutions and more paid time off.

High schools have higher salaries than eikaiwas, and they have a fair amount of paid time off. It depends on whether you work in a public or private school.

I haven't worked in university, so I can't compare the two types of students, but I would suspect that the HS students would be more enjoyable. At least they are required to show up! University life for most Japanese students is boring in the classroom.

Reesy · Joined: 12 Feb 2003 Posts: 31 Location: Japan

Hi Brooks,

Having worked at both I can try to give you my opinion on the subject. Most of the differences are obvious, but there are also some less tangible differences between the two jobs. For example, some people prefer teaching at high school because they feel that it is easier to make a positive impact on the education of the students. I prefer working at the university level for the following reasons. Sorry if some of these are obvious:

1. Substantially better salary with greater potential to secure promotion and earn more.

2. Independence. As a university lecturer/professor you are given much more opportunity to design and carry out your courses as you see fit. No Monbusho-only approved texts, enforced methodologies, and general meddling by others.

3. Respect. Ordinary people hold you in much higher esteem, rightly or wrongly.

4. Research. I enjoy doing research and it is important for my career. I am given time and a budget to do this at the university level. Very few high schools do so.

5. Holidays. Significantly more time off from work. For 7 weeks in the summer, 3 weeks at Christmas and all of February and March I do not have to come to work. Of course, I use some of this time to do research and design courses, but I can do this if and when I want to.

6. Curriculum input. At the high school level you are usually given very little opportunity to shape the curriculum and you are always constrained by the Ministry of Education and senior teachers. I can make a much bigger impact on what and how the students learn at the university level.

7. Maturity of students. I am using this term very loosely. Many of my students are not nearly as mature as their western counterparts, but they are still a little more mature than the high school kids.

8. Reduced teaching load. I taught 15-20 hours a week when I worked at high school. I now teach 7 ninety minute classes a week.

9. This depends to a great extent on the university, but you have fewer discipline problems/issues at the university level. This is because the students are older and a greater percentage (though not all) are interested in learning. This also depends on what kind of high school you have taught at and the university where you teach. Students at some universities would give you more problems than the high school students in others.

10. It's more enjoyable for me for all of the above reasons. I also enjoy the fact that you can deal with the students on more of a person to person level rather than as in an adult/child relationship.

These reasons are general and they reflect only MY SITUATION and MY OPINION. I am aware that some high schools pay very well, give foreign teachers more control over the curriculum, etc. etc. I am also aware that some universities are very lax on student attendance (mine is not), give the foreign lecturers very little independence, etc. But generally, and in most cases, the above points paint an accurate picture.

My advice is this. If you would like to try university teaching, research the universities where you want to apply very carefully. There are umpteen different situations and some are much better than others. Take your time to find an institution that matches your needs and expectations.

Also, I don't think you can really say that one is better than the other. Different teachers have different needs. I know two people who tried a stint at university, found they didn't like it and returned to high school teaching. I would say, however, that of those who have tried both, most prefer university teaching. Although there may be some problems/disadvantages, the benefits and advantages are hard to ignore.

Hope that this helps.

Mosley · Joined: 17 Jan 2003 Posts: 158

"Ordinary people hold you in much higher esteem...." Ignoring the condescending "ordinary people" bit, it's this idea that turns gaijin university types into some of the snottiest people on the planet. They look down their noses at mere mortals like JETs and eikaiwa teachers. The irony is that many of them(the old-timers, anyway) have no more qualifications than the"mortals". I'm not accusing you, Reesy, of fitting into this category-because I don't know you. But can you deny this aspect of the gaijin community?

Brooks · Joined: 16 Jan 2003 Posts: 1369 Location: Sagamihara

I think I might prefer universities. One thing I wonder about is class size. A couple of my high school classes are over 30. Is this the same at universities?

Brooks

PAULH · Joined: 28 Jan 2003 Posts: 4672 Location: Western Japan

Brooks,

I am teaching freshmen and sophomores at a university in Kyoto. My first year classes have on average about 40-50 students in them, one of my second year classes has about 60 students in it while I have taught classes with as many as 70. I have found in general if you are teaching at womens colleges and junior colleges with English majors, class sizes will be smaller. My Gaidai class, all female English majors, has 35 students in it.

Reesy · Joined: 12 Feb 2003 Posts: 31 Location: Japan

guest of Japan · Joined: 28 Feb 2003 Posts: 1601 Location: Japan

Mosley, I noticed that you said that you did your Master's thesis after finishing the JET program. This would imply that at the time you did the JET program you had not set your career along the EFL path. Yet you esteem eikaiwa teachers to be untrained, inexperienced and transient. Given that your past experience exemplifies those whom you codescend, I'm curious how you developed this feeling of superiority.

Mosley · Joined: 17 Jan 2003 Posts: 158

Guest of Japan: was your post aimed at Reesy rather than me?
Reesy: appreciated the reply. Perhaps I was unclear insofar as I was referring to a "social" snottiness rather than an "academic" one. Again, to stand by my post, I found some of the university lecturers to be no more qualified than the "mortals" I referred to.That's not to say I disagree w/you about many in the eikaiwa crowd. I take my hat off to you for getting a Master's Degree-though I don't have any way of knowing if your study actually qualifies you to be a better teacher or not. Is there any way to get access to your thesis on the 'net?

Sunpower · Joined: 22 Jan 2003 Posts: 256 Location: Taipei, TAIWAN

guest of Japan · Joined: 28 Feb 2003 Posts: 1601 Location: Japan

Sorry Mosley. You are correct. That post was aimed at Reesey. It seems my brain took a holiday on that one. My apologies. Mark

Reesy · Joined: 12 Feb 2003 Posts: 31 Location: Japan

G Cthulhu · Posted: Fri May 23, 2003 5:54 am Post subject:

guest of Japan · Joined: 28 Feb 2003 Posts: 1601 Location: Japan

Reesey, I aplologize for being a little over-sensitive and also for my spelling of condescend. I think I might have slightly misread your post. Your defense of JETS which led directly into a slant against eikaiwa teaching caused me to infer that you held JETS in a higher regard than an eikaiwa teacher. After reading it a few more times, I believe that I read too much into it

My point was that many JETS and eikaiwa teachers are untrained, inexperienced, and transient. My goat used to be gotten when I would hear JETS bashing eikaiwa teachers, while at the same time complaining that their major job duty was that of a human tape recorder.

I would not say that an eikaiwa teacher or a JET has comparable duties to those that you have now. I believe that you have probably put in the necessary time and work to justify the salary and stature you recieve now. Just be careful when you make generalizations about others in a different catagory. While I was an eikaiwa teacher, I designed and implemented an advance essay writing course, I did student evaluations and counselings, taught classes, did prospective student interviews, and a host a business campaign leadership responsibilities. As for your inference that quality wouldn't make an eikaiwa a lot of money, I tried to teach quality lessons, and I made my eikaiwa a whole lot of money. That job is very different than the job that you have now, and it is very different than the job I have now, but I'm very proud of what I was able to accomplish in that construct.

Thanks for your response, Mark

Smooth Operator · Joined: 29 Jan 2003 Posts: 140 Location: Japan

People are pretty rough on this board eh!? Only joking, but allow me to say university jobs are a much nicer in almost every way. But some can be better than others...

I enjoying being full-time myself (not tenured), but also part time at 2 or 3 different places is a nice lifestyle. For example, almost 5 months off a year, easy teaching load on 3 or 4 days a week. Higher salary, with bonus and other perks like own office with net connection, research & travel budget etc.

I haven't noticed much of a difference in respect from Japanese people. You can never tell what they think of you as a foreigner! Anway, it's something I don't think about, as it a little conceited maybe...

To Reesy (I think?), going to all those meetings and doing those sales pitchs to high schools, are you tenured? They've got you doing a lot of extra work there?