Job Discussion Forums

[BELS]

Is there any one on the Expat site who is currently teaching in Moscow on a self employed basis? My Russian wife and I have been planning to do this for the past few months. Would you be interested in grouping together and sharing the costs?, such as advertising, renting of classrooms for teaching, administration, and the possibility of forming some type of non profit making company?

It is hoped when forming this company, that we can as a group of EFL teachers will have many benefits, such as having the right to work in Moscow legally on a self employed basis,, and not depend on one particular employer for a work permit or invitation to work. It is also hoped that each teacher will still have his independence and will be able to work as and when he wishes.

There is a lot of information to discuss on this topic, But for now I am just hoping there are enough self employed teachers around that may see the possible benefits to this idea, and will be interested in discussing the matter further.

[BELS]

Okay we now have six efl teachers interested. Are there any more who will consider being part of an EFL teachers partnership

[aussie tim]

I am tim, I am looking at getting involved in a venture myself. I have worked for numerous schools in Russia. In St Petersburg and Moscow on contract which I did not enjoy , as I feel I was always getting the wrong end of the stick as far as fairness in salary and benefits. I know in the cities of Rostov and Volgograd there is a market for native speaker English teachers. The schools there have a monopoly and a market there just waiting to be explored. I would be interested in getting it up a running in one for these cities as a satellite school. I have worked in Volgograd and have some handy connections as far as the red tape. I am sure it would be much cheaper to set it up down there. hire a classroom in the evenings, doing it officially , i am sure can be avoided down there until it becomes big enough. When it becomes big enough i guess then all the registration can take place.

[BELS]

I am a little concerned about your purpose of forming a school. Its seems to me you are a disgruntled ex employee of a school that you now have a vendetta against all current efl schools. This is not a good reason to start a school, or any other business.

You must stay focused in what you want to do, forget about the other schools, plan and run your own school properly, the way you think is best for your pupils, a good business plan is essential.

And be careful, its ok to do some private one to one classes for the time being but advertising and running classes, you will be noticed, you will have weaknesses for your competitors to shop you. Dont worry about other schools, because demand for native speakers is high, there is plenty of business for everyone.

[canucktechie]

[BELS]

Well done potential student. you noticed one error I made, but you missed one. You forgot to mention disguntled for disgruntled. So you will not be awarded a free student place at my new school.

[bobs12]

Must say that a teacher opening a school in competition with the big chains is like opening a hotdog stall outside MacDonalds.

[Yosma]

I for one would prefer to buy something from the hot dog stall, in that case.

There are plenty of small schools in Moscow, just a flat basically with a small board on the wall and desk chairs. With low overheads you don't need a huge amount of students to make some money.

It think it depends more on the competence of the people involved.

[bobs12]

One hot dog isn't going to bring down MacDonald's

[Yosma]

Who's talking about bringing them down. (Actually I would like to! Mcd's and the big schools)

Anyway, surely you see the point that the market is big enough for the big schools and smaller outfits to operate.

[BELS]

Well said Yosma, And as I said. "Demand is high in Moscow" there is enough business for all. I would love to a survey on the share of the market, but I am convinced that jointly, the largest share of the market is already with the smaller schools and the individual self employed teachers.

[bobs12]

I didn't say it was a bad idea I also believe that the future is with small, high-quality schools and individual teachers (the whole point of my site). But it's a long way off. For now, the big schools have the upper hand and will control the market for a good while yet. They have more resources, and importantly more disposable resources, plus reputation and brand awareness.

I don't know about Moscow, but in St. Petersburg it seems that the market has recently been flooded by small schools. They are not competing with the big organisations, but rather competing with each other. Two markets, if you like.

My point was that opening burger stalls all across town won't create competition for MacDonald's, they'll only be competing for non-MacDonald's customers. I might be wrong, but it seems elementary business sense. The burger stall is unlikely to steal MacDonald's customers, but it might steal custom from existing stalls or from 'virgin' buyers.

In a place with less presence from big, established schools, yes. There's every chance of gaining a foothold and a good advantage over maybe one branch of EF or BKC. But in a big city I have a feeling that small schools will have long time of tight belts and mopping up dregs. Correct me if I'm wrong.

[canucktechie]

[BELS]

I think its a bad idea for an individual to start business, and open a school , simply for the purpose of competing with the big schools. And as for the big schools controlling the market ? Yes they have the resources, employing a lot of teachers and recruiting a lot of students. Reputation and brand awareness ? I couldn�t find anything in their marketing strategy to suggest this. Apart from the British Council, there appears to be a lot of respect for this organisation, and their qualifications are recognised such as PET, FCE, CAE. I support any Russian who speaks well of the British Council, �Yes, the qualifications are well recognised, would you like me to prepare you, for one of their exams"?

Talking about Brand awareness, There�s a tea company in Moscow, that I have never heard of, giving the impression that all Londoners drink their tea, Every Brit knows that this title belongs to Brooke Bond PG Tips, in fact Brooke Bond is the major supplier for the whole of the UK. Most certainly the title doesn�t belong to a name that sounds of the Far East. Come on Brooke Bond, what are you going to do about it.

The most difficult obstacle for a foreigner who wishes to establish a small school in Russia is dealing with the legality to form that school. My Russian wife and I have been making enquiries for the past six months, we get some good advice , and we often hit a brick wall afterwards, we are getting there, but we still need a little more legal advice, before we make our final decision. Questions I have asked in the past.

Perhaps you could start with getting a years multi entry Business visa?

Unfortunately this doesn�t give you the right to work, self employed or otherwise. Even if you register to pay the taxes, you can still be prosecuted. I�m amazed at the number of individuals on forums actually believing that they are legally working with a business visa

How about registering for a PBOYul or individual entrepreneur?

Apparently you will need to have a temporary residential visa before you can register for a PBOYul

Then how about getting an off the shelf company? that will cost only about $400 including solicitors services.

Yes but as a company you will also need to license and insure yourself as a school. Also procedures with getting your company a permanent address, registering with immigration authorities to give your company the right to invite foreign English native speakers to work for the company. And of course the expense of accountants, and registering with the national health and tax authorities. So a lot more expense and time is involved. I myself am interested in this procedure, but I can�t afford to do it on my own.

So my point is this, after a foreigner legally forms a school everything else becomes easier for an experienced business man. There is no reason why a newly formed legal school cant work alongside the big schools, and gradually develop itself and try to gain a good reputation teaching English as a foreign language in Moscow.


My experience as from what the students wants, is first the teacher. Is he, she a native English teacher? I live in a western region of Moscow, all my students are local to me, before they discovered me they used to travel regularly to Moscow central, so locality was an important factor in their choice. Yes the individual teacher is the star, not the company. A lot of my students are curious about me and my wife. Why do you want to stay in Moscow, as against a better lifestyle in the UK, well that is their perception. To cut a long story short, my wife and I prefer to live and work together in Russia, and we enjoy the experience of teaching English as a second language. That is exactly what they want to hear, A person who wants to settle and teach in Russia on a long term basis. A person who wants to be successful in what they teach.
Something else the student wants, English courses that meets their requirements. For example some ask about preparation for qualifications, normally PET, FCE, or CAE, Some will want to learn English to function in there work or business, or perhaps something more specialised like teaching English for the Hotel and Tourist Industry. you will need the knowledge and the resources that will meet their demand.

QUOTE:
But in a big city I have a feeling that small schools will have long time of tight belts and mopping up dregs. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Sorry but I think you are wrong, I don�t think the big schools will have any effect whatsoever on what students the small schools get. In fact any thought about the big schools will probably be the last thing on their minds. The small school will simply get the students they require , with the resources that they currently have, and the big schools will continue to get the students with the larger resources that they have

QUOTE:
I also believe that the future is with small, high-quality schools and individual teachers (the whole point of my site).

I totally agree J

[bobs12]

Fair enough, but ask any high-street sample of Russian students studying English privately, or considering studying privately, to name the first few schools that come to mind. How many will name the small schools as opposed to the big, established schools? That's what I meant by 'brand' awareness in the last post, as debatable as its accuracy in that context may have been. It's not a part of their strategy, it's just a consequence of their ubiquity. Sorry, I didn't understand the tea analogy.

About small schools- I'm speaking not from my own experience, but mainly from that of an acquaintance here who has set up his own school and gone through all the hurdles you describe. I was of the same impression as you, and planning much the same idea. I had exactly the same idea (as my friend did), that there was 'plenty to go round'.

But once you open a business, you're running with many of the overheads of the big schools but a lot less scale. You have to balance the cost of advertising and promotion with the actual capacity of your school. Keeping above water means competing - a business can't afford to just 'tick over'. Attracting students is easier with a professional appearance - i.e. permanent premises and not just a hired room in a state school.


Another friend (here) has gone through the registration of a company (remarkably simple, apparently), but only naming himself as a party to the bank account. He has a fairly unique way of getting round some legalities that most of us wouldn't be able to avoid, but your having a Russian spouse may help overcome those in a similar way. He has no premises, employs other teachers and does make reasonable money, but works pretty hellish hours.

Both have business backgrounds - one has an MBA - but I don't think either would say it was plain sailing.

It was the chap who opened his school properly who said he felt the market was near-saturated. I was surprised- I knew that there had been a mini 'explosion' in new schools opening, but I thought, as maybe you do, that demand was inexhaustible and would support good prices indefinitely. He started opening his school at the beginning of the boom, so he saw the effects first-hand. maybe the situation in Moscow is different, I don't know.


Check the SPTimes archive online - there's an article there about bigger schools 'diversifying' into more specialised areas. Read between the lines and I think you might get the impression that they're not so much expanding as stretching.

Count the number of schools you know (add any from my list that you don't know) and make a guess at their capacity. Take a guess at the level of demand (remember it's seasonal). Add in the factor that the bigger a school, the longer it can keep its doors open per day, making its catchment wider.

Think how many student hours you need to cover your overheads, then how many more you need just to start paying wages.


The competition is strong - there are schools (here, anyway) with very prestigious reputations, like Liden & Denz. Whether they really are as high-quality as they say, you have to convince people that you offer something better. Once you open a 'proper' business, I think undercutting won't be much of an option. The Benedict School, for example, was considered one of the cheapest when I was teaching there.

Attracting students may not be difficult, but running a business at a competitive price might be.

I know a couple in a small city who set up a school with virtually no competition. They struggled pretty hard, and I think the school was largely supported by their camps in Finland which they had been running long before opening the school. They didn't just teach English, and had students travelling from miles around to attend their camps and their school. They had an agreement to rent a room in an English-specialised school, and even hired its main teacher.

I don't know how it's going now, but I know that they stopped hiring native teachers for camps as they could no longer afford it. I worked with them and can say that their ideas were extremely creative, they had a fantastic way of keeping people coming back to their camps, and they were held in very high esteem by students and parents.

If they're having trouble, I would worry about opening a school.

Anyway, just a few thoughts and observations from an entirely different city. Not saying they're right, not contradicting you and not trying to be negative or otherwise undermine anybody, only advising caution. So let's not have any of the forum lurkers jumping on me.