Job Discussion Forums

[Marcoregano]

I haven't had a good look at this forum for a few years - not in fact since I was a spring chicken in my 30's. Seems to me that the TEFL scene in Europe has become even more competitive (read lower paid and cut-throat) than it was. I've been in Asia for six years and have always assumed I will return to Europe sooner or later, but I wonder. Looks like it's become a place only for those who either have enough money put by so they can afford to get badly paid, or are young enuff they don't care. My question: Is there a decent living (with savings) to be had for a 42 year-old British male who doesn't have much in the way of savings and who doesn't want to have to do a Dog and Pony show every day to make ends meet? And where? I have CELTA, about seven years TEFL experience and will soon have an MEd in TESOL. Er, that'll do for now. Cheers.

[Marcoregano]

As my posting seems to be going nowhere fast, I'll elaborate a little. A friend of a friend mine runs a successful private language school in London. One of his mantras is "never hire anybody over 40", his logic being that a) the style of teaching demanded by private language schools is generally of a nature which over 40's would find both tiring and tedious and b) over 40's ought to have something better to do. While I think I probably agree with the first point I'm not sure I'm in a position to agree with the second - but that's what I want to find out. I certainly don't want to work for a private school - aside from the above they don't pay very well. However, I'd guess that unfortunately at least 80% of ESL jobs in Europe are in private language schools. But how about other more senior jobs for more senior, more experienced, perhaps better qualified, over 40's? For example, university posts, teacher training, curriculum design, etc. And where are they? The ones that pay well, that is. Er, and my home country, the UK, is out, because I hear you need a PhD to get a uni post thesedays, and I can't be bothered doing one. Any comments on any of the above? Cheers, Mark.

[rogan]

Hmm - Europe but not the U.K. - O.K. I understand that.

Other European countries require that you have qualified as a teacher.
France, for example, needs THEIR CAPES (locally pronounced CAP-ESS) qualification.

However it is possible to become a temporary replacement teacher in High Schools (19 - 19) or Colleges (12 - 16). But this is temporary and precarious.
Most Education authorities (Rectorats) require that you register with them, have your Degree approved etc at THIS time of the year (May to July) ready for Sept next.

Private (fee paying) 'Ecoles Superieures' will employ people but again it's fairly temporary and precarious. They often offer only a few hours a week and if the students don't like you (i.e. you start to fail them or point out their weaknesses) then the Ecole will cut your hours or dump you.

Working in approved Educational Institutes in the 10 mew member countries of the EU should be possible but the salaries are fairly rubbish.

What you want is not easy.

DoS posts in private language schools should be possible for you.

[scot47]

I am afraid that I can only echo the bleak news above. There is not much doing in Europe unless you are happy to teach split shifts on a subsitence wage.
Saudi Arabia is full of people like me who would love to teach in Germany or France but are condemned to a working life in the Gulf.

[Marcoregano]

Thanks Rogan and Scot47. I find it odd however that neither of you mention universities. Surely there are decent ESL uni openings in some European countries? I know for example that in Turkey there are plenty of uni posts (as indeed is the case in Asia), but I know nothing about universities in Spain, France, Italy, Greece and everywhere else come to think of it. Not true....I did my TESOL training in Prague and I met a guy working at the University of Economics there, but he was on the usual East European subsistence wage. But, how about other countries?

[scot47]

The job markets are country-specific. For Germany you have little chance even with a doctorate and good German. Scandinavia ? Forget it.

Bleak ? Negative ? No, just realistic. Maybe someone else can give us some input on other countries in Europe and the slim possibilities of university jobs.

[Shaman]

I heard about uni jobs in Paris through word of mouth. It is practically imperative to know someone already in the system. Most uni teachers I knew also did private lessons and a few hours per week at a language school to supplement their incomes.

Shaman

[gsbcn08080]

I've met a few teachers over 40 teaching in Spain. I don't think they care that much about age but working at a University will not be possible unless you are really highly qualified and I don't mean qualifications in TEFL. Even then I think the Spanish teachers would have preference.

One director of a school where I used to work said he did not take older people because they were too demanding whereas the younger ones were just happy to get a job and less problematic.

Best of luck anyway.

[SueH]

Well, there is work available but not necessarily well paid.

I'm working hourly paid in a Further Education college, but then I'm a career change escapee from IT with currently very little experience and only the CELTA as a qualification in this line of work... oh, and I'm 48 but normally reckoned younger.

I saw a job at Chichester College the other day but for a permanent full time post it required 4 years experience. It was advertised in the local rag and The Guardian ISTR. Scale something like 16 to 26k.

Expensive area for housing, luckily mine is paid for, but at least it shows some stuff is available - hope this helps.

[SueH]

Currently there is no formal requirement to have _any_ teaching requirement to teach in FE, although the govt is in the process of making this a requirement over the next few years. Nothing like a Phd though!

[Marcoregano]

I find it hard to believe that university jobs in Europe are particularly difficult to find.....I simply can't see why that should be the case - they are simply the extended arm of the education system, are they not? Universities teach English therefore they need English teachers. I can well believe however that university jobs in many countries are not necessarily good jobs...teaching conditions and pay might be poor. But there are plenty of EEC (and other) nationals teaching in UK universities, especially in language departments...shouldn't it be the same (in theory) elsewhere, albeit with different pay and conditions?

[Albulbul]

In developed European countries there is little or no effective demand for native speaker teachers of English at university level. Getting a job in a German University is not like finding a job as a teaching assistant at a university in Mexico or South Korea.

Unfair ? Maybe. But it is a fact. Now you can post abusive mails about how negative I am. Just remember that you shouldn't blame the rain on the guy who gives you the weather forecast.

[rogan]

In France the Uni jobs go to those who have an accepted teaching qualification.

That is a teaching qualification that is acceptable in France - back to the CAPES again.

Private Unis (Ecoles Superieures) see my previous post.

Unfortunately, what you wnt to do, and what you consider "fair" or "unfair" has little to do with actual situations.

And Europe isn't Asia. What you can do over ther isn't what you can do here.

[scot47]

Alas, the attitude of many is that "THERE MUST BE A JOB IN ABCania FOR ME ! Anyone who says I cannot have a job there is wrong and wicked and hates me. "

Is there something about TEFL that attracts the infantile ?

[Shaman]

Any room in the dungeon, scot?