Job Discussion Forums

[Montie]

Hi,
I am writing an assignment on what ESL schools can do to keep their foreign teachers. High staff turnovers are very expensive for a school not just from a monetary perspective but from other factors such as continuity, program management etc.
Teaching salaries are low in China compared with other countries yet from my reading of this forum I see some teachers stay for a long time while others leave after a very short time. Therefore..................

What do teachers expect from their schools management?
What makes you stay?
What could schools do to encourage staff to stay?
Why do people leave?
What do you find the best/and worst about teaching in China?
What do you want from a school.....
participation in the running of the school?
promotional opportunities,
more holidays?
more choice in timetabling, staff selection?
professional development and opportunities to attend conferences, seminars, local efl teacher meetings?
trust?
culture shock?

What things really work well to help your school keep its teachers.
What things really upset teachers

What do you understand about the Chinese management concepts of loyalty, guanxi, pao.
Why did you want to come to China?
What makes you stay?
What makes you want to leave?
If you ran your school what would you change?????????????

Anything else that you think is relevant that I haven't thought about.

Thanks very much for considering these weighty questions.
Montie

l

[China Pete]

Heres another thought:
Some teachers have come to China wanting to stay a long time, and have had bad experiences in bad universities which resulted in them leaving china never to return, or in my case, used it as a lesson and a stepping stone and moved on to better things.
What is it that some schools do wrong that make people want to leave, and even to leave early, even run for cover?

[Minhang Oz]

Monty
I'll answer your questions if you write my next post grad TESOL essay, which is due very soon. That's the best offer you'll get on this site.
Really, there are hundreds of topics and thousands of posts here - a primary resource for your free use.
I don't know, young people of today, when I was at Uni.........[retreats grumbling ]

[ESL Guru]

HERE! HERE!

Well said oh magnificant leader!

We do not answer such inquiries without adequate compensation.

Even the tabloids know better than this.

HERE! HERE!

[klasies]

Montie
You getting paid for that assignment?.... and you want us to help you for free!
He He He He

[Hamish]

What do teachers expect from their schools management?

I expect them to have an honest interest in the quality of instruction delivered to the students. They must create a comprehensive general educational philosophy for their school that is clearly stated, and which all personnel understand and follow. A school that has no philosophy is a collection of, perhaps, well intentioned people that has no idea what it is doing. It is better to have an inadequate and evolving general philosophy than to have none at all. All to often, schools seem to have no clear idea of what they are trying to do with their students.

What makes you stay?

Thus far, not long, we stay because we want to help our students and our colleagues, whom we admire tremendously. We enjoy China and want to see and know more about her. Last, but certainly not least, we are Americans and have come to feel uncomfortable in our own country under its present fascistic management.

What could schools do to encourage staff to stay?

The school should ensure that all of its teachers are qualified in the English language and want to be teachers. It is demoralizing to be a teacher among backpackers who have no interest or concern for what they are doing with our charges. Similarly, it is demoralizing to teach with Chinese nationals that do not know the English language and do not appear to want to learn. If a person is not vigorously trying to do a good job, and trying to get better, they should be replaced at once.

Why do people leave?

In my short experience, several people I have seen leave seemed to not have a clear idea of what they are looking for, but were enjoying the looking process. Several have had no particular aptitude for teaching. Several have been treated very badly by their employers who did not understand, or appeared not to care, that a young single person, far from home and culturally isolated, needs support. By support I mean regular contact with other people that speak English and care about the teacher as a fellow human being.

What do you find the best/and worst about teaching in China?

Best � China itself, the kids, the food, and doing something that is useful.

Worst � spitting INSIDE the classroom #$@#@@!!, squatters (which in nine full months I have never used once for #2, good huh?�more information than you really needed perhaps?)

What do you want from a school.....

More of everything they have and can get, and be damned quick about it.

participation in the running of the school?

Yes.

promotional opportunities,

Yes.

more holidays?

No.

more choice in timetabling, staff selection?

Yes.

professional development and opportunities to attend conferences, seminars, local efl teacher meetings?

Yes.

trust?

No. We get plenty of that.

culture shock?

See above.

What things really work well to help your school keep its teachers.

Excellent living quarters, a trusting and caring administration, and the occasional night out with the staff to get drunk and roll in the mud.

What things really upset teachers

Any indication that their efforts are not appreciated and respected really hits home. Real teachers often became teachers because they loved one or several of the people who were their teachers, and wish to emulate them. Also, they want a life where people feel the same way about them as they felt about their teachers and schools. It is a very public role where teachers must expose themselves (in a good way) every day. Thus, they hunger for applause and respect. When it is not radiated by their colleagues and administrators, teachers are sickened by the lack.

What do you understand about the Chinese management concepts of loyalty, guanxi, pao.

Not a damned thing. Really.

Why did you want to come to China?

We have heard and read about China all of our lives. Much of what we thought we �knew� came from our government and our media in the United States. We wanted to check and see if what we believed was true was actually true. It turns out that much of what we had carefully learned was just false, through and through.

Most of what average Americans �know� about Asia and China is wrong.

What makes you stay?

China.

What makes you want to leave?

Nothing.

If you ran your school what would you change?????????????

It would include the essence of what I have jabbered about above. Fortunately for us, that would not require much change at this school.

Regards,

[Roger]

My expectations on my Chinese employers:
- That an expat gets treated as what he is officially described - an 'expert' in his or her field, i.e. the teaching of his or her own language. In other words: I would like to teach English the way we teach it elsewhere, free from Chinese idiosyncrasies, parochialism and personal ego trips by principals. We should be allowed to set our standards rather than lowering our expectations because we are serving CHinese students.
Of course, we would have to assume more responsibility for curriculum development, grading, and we would have to teach other subjects that currently are mostly being taught by our local colleagues, such as grammar, writing, literature. I do not think these subjects are, in general, being taught competently by Chinese teachers!

- I do not need more holidays (in most cases, you work in a McDonald's school during your holiday season anyway). Pay is at the moment not a big issue either. I would, however, wish for more long-term jobs to be made available. Almost all contracts are for one year, and many schools prefer to hire fresh flesh every year, retaining one or two of their previous teacher harvest. It certainly is not very conducive to a good learning environment. Nor is it motivating for a teacher who has to look for a new job every ten months!

- Personally, I like it here reasonably well. Life is getting ever more westernised. There is always that big temptation of travelling or just exploring the neighbourhood that has undergone a total face-lift over the last one year or two! It is a nation on the go, and as a fencesitter I enjoy a pretty good view here!

[Hamish]

[ESL Guru]

Montie -

Serious answers to your questions will require years of psychological study of sick minds. Humans who knowingly and willingly suffer abuse for minimal remuneration in a foreign land because everybody needs somebody to love them and to love. Better to be abused than not loved at all.

Maybe you should just study battered wives in the US because they appear to suffer from the same dimentia as ESL teachers in China.

Good luck and God Bless.

[Montie]

Thanks everyone for your comments....both helpful and helpless!. Just to set the record straight NO I don't actually get paid for this, on the contrary my university makes me pay and no I am not Chinese, I live and am studying a M Ed. TESOL course in Brisbane Australia.

I am doing a subject on the management of EFL/ESL schools and was fortunate enough to have the opportunity to stay and help out in a technical college last December and January. I am basing my assignment on the experiences I gained there and am looking at how Chinese management cater for their foreign teachers and what they can do to increase teacher commitment and make it a positive experience for both the teachers and the school. Teachers are usually commited first to their students but it may also include the management staff and the organisation. Not necessarily in that order.

Because of the small amount of time I spent in China and the fact that there were only about 12 foreign teachers on the staff I thought it would be interesting to get teachers experiences from other schools and to share ideas. Perhaps some teachers may have some ideas that you can try to get implemented in your own schools. Most of this assignment is based on commitment theory but I really appreciate the practical input you have given me.

If anyone is ever thinking of doing a research assignment on this topic it is a wide open field as very little has been written about it.

Thanks,
Montie

[ESL Guru]

Ur anus -

I am so sorry for picking on you in the past. I had no idea that you needed a dictionary for such easy English. May I always have compasison on you in the future.

Do you need asssistance in locating a kindy job? I would be willing to provide assistance to you if I can.

You poor thing. Do you need a new dictionary? Your old one must be so well worn out. I can take up a collection in here for you if you like. I am confident that all share my compassion for you.

[chinasyndrome]

Really funny, Sunny, but careful. Okay? Don't monkey around. Just when we've got you trained the way we want you, we don't want to lose you. Let him keep talking to himself.

And thanks for asking what Calvin is holding. Not. It's a chunk from Arioch's avatar. Sheesh! You guys are the least inquiring minds in cyberspace, Atlantis or Uranus!

[China Plate]

I think there have been some very valid points made here. I came here primarily to study the culture and history of China, as well as the language.

Teaching English seemed an ideal way of doing it, after having spent five years of teaching literacy and numeracy/ESL on Aboriginal communities in Australia.

I found, as has already been posted, that what we had been "taught" about China was far from the truth. The perception portrayed in the west is somewhat biased.

I find the people easy to work with, and most of the classes quite accepting of foreigners. That is not to say that I haven't had negative experiences. However, I think I had my share of negative experiences working in Australia.

I actually enjoy teaching the classes here more than I did back in Australia. The school I am at now seems to appreciate me, even to the extent of weekly parcels of fruit, and a never ending supply of Coke to help me get through the classes (Cola variety, that is). They even put flyscreens on my windows, and send a security guard to do my cleaning every night.

The down side comes from a sort of cultural bombardment. It was sort of cute, the first 100 times or so, to be told what a handsome man I was. (This never happened in Australia).

I could even put up with the stupid grins that accompanied the hellos, followed by hysterical group backslapping, and self-congratulation at how clever they had been. At first.

And the spitting and nose picking... well, all these things have been well-documented here in the past.

Overall, I think my brief stay here has been good. I have gained an insight into a different culture, and found the differences between what we are told about China, and what China is actually like.

I have also had the chance to learn some different teaching styles, and meet people from all over the world, working here in China.

And. of course, there is the REAL reason I came to China. To participate in a great forum like this, and read the writings of the truly great philosophers of the 21st century.

[China Plate]

From: ESL Guru
To: China Plate
Posted: Thu May 22, 2003 9:40 pm
Subject: yada - yada - yada - yada

That's all just yada from another ground rodent.

You can not even appreciate a good banana!



ESL Guru

I have moved your message from my PM list to the public forum. Such deep insight should not be restricted to one humble man, but should be shared with the entire world.

You are a prime example of my earlier statement about masters of philosophy, and show yourself to, indeed, be the guru that you profess to be.

Please do not waste future correspondence to my PM list. Post it here for all the world to share.

[ESL Guru]

I guess you just can not help being an idiot.

Writerman warned that such should be by PM and then you post it here.

You have a death wish man or a "banishment" wish?

Further, if someone wants something posted here and know how to do it, don't you think your posting it here shows your absolute untrustworthyness?


This is not intended as a flame but it does appear to be one. So sorry.