Job Discussion Forums

[ESL Guru]

A human I know forwarded an email he received from a certain unnamed Chinese Ph.D. Linguist at a major Chinese Uni in Southern China. It may be noteworthy for those of you who are serious ESL teachers to realize that an FE can receive respect and appreciation in China and that there are serious problems endemic in the Chinese social fabric that make your job very difficult.

" ... Thanks a lot for your forwarded information from Stephen Krashen. I am so glad that you are sincerely concerned with English education in China. My students and some of my collegues are now familiar with you and your research.
What we need most in China is ''different voices'' in every possible field of the society including politics, education and economy. "Different voices", although not pleasant sometimes, help people, esp. people in power, to walk straight and steady. But not so many people in China understand that. Western teachers in China often complain that Chinese students are not active in class. The truth is Chinese children are told again and again not to speak in class from kindergartens and are even punished if they try to. My boy, who is now only 4 years old, told me the first day after kindergarten (a year ago) that he was not allowed to speak in class. When we were children, we were told not to speak before any adults if not asked to, in almost every circumstances. We survived that discipline but often speechless in public or before authorities. As a teacher, I always try to encourage my students to stand up against incompetent teachers or unfair treatments and I find that the younger generation is much better.
You have contributed a lot to English education in China by your teaching of the students and by your "different voices". I didn't like Chinese girls married to foreigners but you are one of those few people who have changed my views and I think ... is quite right.
Thanks again."

SO BE OF GOOD CHEER ROGER, BERTRAND, BILL, SENOR AND OTHERS WHO KNOW THE FRUSTRATION BUT CONTINUE THE COMMITTMENT.

I realize that this post opens me to some pretty raunchy flames, but I think this type of encouraging message should be shared rather than appreciated in secret.

[Roger]

My congratulations to you for receiving this missive! Obviously you have earned respect, and that is good.

Still, I do not quite understand her point about not being allowed to speak in class.
I do not believe she means to say that Chinese English teachers do not want their students to SPEAK ENGLISH; rather, I am led to believe CHinese teachers (of any subject) would like their students to be more disciplined during class and not to speak among themselves.
How nice if students could be made to refrain from their private conversations (in their local vernacular!) during English lessons! The worst in my opinioln is that they do not listen to other Chinese speaking English!
Do they assume they cannot understand other speakers of English?
They would benefit a lot if they heard themselves speak the language!!!
They might benefit even more than by listening to the expat teacher only!

[ESL Guru]

Roger -

My human friend will ask her for you and then I will let you know her response.

I have no idea what either one of you is talking about.

I have ripe bananas!

[MyTurnNow]

Guruji,

Thanks for your post. I'll be interested in any result of the further inquiry.

Wherever it comes from, I've always seen a strong and infuriating streak of "keep your head down and try not to be seen" in the classes here. Maybe this is where it comes from.

MT

[ESL Guru]

Professor _. _. ____, Ph.D. of ________ Province gives several reasons for her statement but does not wish to be quoted or involved in this forum.

I will attempt to paraphrase what she will be publioshing by the end of this year.

Middle School English teachers are inadequately trained in English and feel "inconfident" to teach English or to teach in English. They teach English using Chinese and discourage students from using English as that constitutes a challenge to the teacher's English speaking ability, which is usually very poor.

The English instruction in Middle School is geared toward taking the College entrance examination and there is no oral English in that process.

Even Chinese Ph.D.'s feel "inconfident" in their oral English and use Chinese to teach English as much as possible. The Uni class is chalk and talk. That is why the FE is hired. They are the only ones actually expected to teach or conduct class in English.

The Chinese English teachers are unfamiliar with any concept of "Language acquisition" as opposed to "language learning" and the two are lumped into teaching/learning.

When her paper is published I will let you know so you can at least read the Abstract which will be in English. After the English abstract the rest of her published works are all in Chinese. She is a classic example of what she describes.

[Joe C.]

...

ESL Guru is really MW.

The legend has returned!

[ESL Guru]

Before I can know if that is a compliment or an insult I will need to know who MW is or was, please?

[Joe C.]

[ESL Guru]

Joe C also known as Miss Molly -

I have looked up all of our posts and I can not find any reason you dislike me and want to have me tagged with this MW characters bad history in here. Why do you want the moderators to bann me? What did I do to you?

I see that in your prior incarnation as NOYB that you had some run ins with MW but that is no reason for you to attack me. I have nothing against you.

So what's up bro?

Some have suggested I am Hubei Canuckelhead, Dragon or even you but I do not know why?

[Joe C.]

I don't recall saying or even implying that I dislike you. If your theory were correct and I were NOYB, I don't think there would be any doubt that I did.

I am just saying that a lot of what your human friend has told you is virtually identical to what MW was posting. Nothing more, nothing less.

[ESL Guru]

Joe C. aka. Miss Molly, aka. Dragon, aka. Dr. Poteus:

The records of this forum indicate that MW posted here between April 3 and May 5. The records also indicate that you did not join this forum until May 8. So just how is it that you are so familiar with all of the postings of MW?

I have looked at all of your postings and I am sorry to say that you just do not appear to be the studious type who would have gone back and researched prior postings of anyone.

I am left with one of two suspicions:
1. You are a reincarnation who was in the room when MW was posting.
2. You are MW trying to throw off suspicion.

Well, the last one is impossible because I have had a look at a couple of the postings of MW and you are no MW, that's for sure.

The private PM's keep telling me that you are the Dragon in your fourth reincarnation.

[davis]

I think Guru is a reincarnation of MW. Prolific number of boring posts in a very short time frame. Very little in substance, long on blather.

[Minhang Oz]

And "Davis" is definitely Joe C.
Who's his avatar? Why, Joe Camel of course!
New rules:
-one handle per poster at a time
-maximum three handles, then find another forum.

[Joe C.]

And how, pray tell, can you even begin to enforce rules like that? Got a magic wand???

[ESL Guru]

How about self-regulation?

We have no union.
We have no central Representative speaking for us.
We are a fragmented bunch of rag tags, no disrespect intended.
We are divided, Province by Province and conquered.

At least Dave gives us a central contact point, a place to bitch, joke, share and care.

At times we may even be receptive to information beyond where can I work, how much can I get, how much vacation time, are there any WOMEN?

So, how about a little self-regulation?

Ever count the number of locked threads and who was the last poster?
Dragon is the champ but Sunaru is in close 2nd.

Flames cause a good thread to be blocked. Why can we not reserve our flames for PM?