Job Discussion Forums

[arioch36]

For the men (and women) who suggest prostitution is a victemless crime and should be legalized; I suggest you look at the reality, not a covenient myth. Curiously, the maximum pnealty for the slave trade is one year in the netherlands.

The maximum penalty for alien smuggling in the Netherlands is one year. (Tass, 1995, "Trafficking and Prostitution: The Growing Exploitation of Migrant Women from Central and Eastern Europe," IOM, May 1995)


�Foreign Government Complicity in Human Trafficking:

A Review of the State Department�s 2002 Trafficking in Persons Report�



House Committee on International Relations



Wednesday, June 19, 2002

2172 Rayburn House Office Building

1:00 pm (http://wwwa.house.gov/international_relations/107/hugh0618.htm)


In October 2000, the Netherlands officially legalized prostitution and brothels. The Dutch sex industry is now a $1 billion business or 5 percent of the Dutch economy, with the industry having increased 25 percent in the last decade.[13]

Women in prostitution in the Netherlands come from 32 different countries. There are few Dutch women in the brothels. [14]
One year after legalization of prostitution and brothels, traffickers control 50 percent of women in prostitution.[15]
70 percent of the trafficked women are from Central and Eastern European countries. Eighty percent of these women have their passports confiscated, are kept in isolation, forced to work long hours for no pay, and are physically and emotionally abused by pimps, traffickers and male buyers. [16]
The situation is similar in Germany. In December 2001, Germany legalized pimping and brothel keeping (prostitution was already legal), and officially stated that prostitution is no longer to be seen as immoral. The estimated turnover from bars, clubs, and brothels connected to prostitution is $4.5 billion per year.[17] There are an estimated 400,000 women in prostitution in Germany.[18]

75 percent of the prostitutes are foreigners.[19]
80 percent of the trafficked women in Germany are from Central and Eastern Europe and countries of the former Soviet Union.[20]
Increasing the demand for women in prostitution in countries where a significant portion, and in most cases the majority, of the women are foreign citizens violates the criteria set out in the TVPA that governments should adopt measures to prevent trafficking.

Tolerance and legalization of sex industries also leads to an increase in child prostitution. The Amsterdam-based NGO ChildRight reported that from 1996 to 2001 the number of Dutch children abused and exploited in prostitution increased from 4,000 to 15,000, almost a 400 percent increase.[21] Yet, the Netherlands is placed on Tier 1 in the TIP Report.


Trafficking

In Amsterdam, Netherlands, 80% of prostitutes are foreigners, and 70% have no immigration papers, suggesting that they were trafficked. (Marie-Victoire Louis, "Legalizing Pimping, Dutch Style," Le Monde Diplomatique, 8 March 1997)

In the Netherlands, 33% of the prostitutes come from countries outside of the European Union, this increases to 50% in the larger cities (Altink, 1995) ("Trafficking of Women to the European Union: Characteristic, Trends and Policy Issues," European Conference on Trafficking in Women, (June 1996), IOM, 7 May 1996)

Since 1990 in the Netherlands, the number of trafficked women from Central and Eastern European Countries has tripled. ("Trafficking of Women to the European Union: Characterisitics, Trends and Policy Issues," European Conference on Trafficking in Women, (June 1996), IOM, 7 May 1996)

In 1994 in the Netherlands, 69% of 168 trafficked victims were from Central and Eastern European Countries. (The Dutch Foundation Against Trafficking in Women, an NGO, "Trafficking of Women to the European Union: Characterisitics, Trends and Policy Issues," European Conference on Trafficking in Women, (June 1996), IOM, 7 May 1996)


In 1994, the majority of trafficked women from Central and Eastern European Countries had traveled overland, usually by car (IOM, 1995). ("Trafficking of Women to the European Union: Characterisitics, Trends and Policy Issues," European Conference on Trafficking in Women, (June 1996), IOM, 7 May 1996)

Of the 155 victims of trafficking assisted by STV in the Netherlands, at least 50 (37 of whom were from the Central and Eastern European Countries) were unemployed or had never worked before leaving their country of origin. ("Trafficking and Prostitution: The Growing Exploitation of Migrant Women from Central and Eastern Europe," IOM, May 1995)

The Netherlands is one the most popular destinations in Europe of women trafficked from Ukraine and Russia. (Vladmir Isachenkov, "Soviet Women Slavery Flourishes," Associated Press, 6 November 1997)

80% of the women counseled were from the former Soviet bloc. (Marjan Wejers, director of the Netherlands' STV/Foundation Against Traffic in Women, Christina Ling, "Rights Activists Rap Ex-Soviet States on Sex-Trade," Reuters, 6 November 1997)

Official Response and Action

Despite efforts to investigate an international child pornography ring based in the Netherlands, there has still been no concerted united effort to banish child pornography. The Dutch justice ministry blamed foreign-based Internet servers for continuing to display child pornography on the web. ("Dutch see no easy control of child porn on Internet," Scotsman, 23 July 1998)

Although almost all of the 15 European Union member states seek stronger measures to combat pornography involving children, the Netherlands opposed Belgium's proposal to make it a criminal offense to possess such material for "personal ends". So the possession of pornographic videos of children will no longer be regarded in Europe as constitution sexual exploitation and will be exempt from all sanctions. (Marie-Victoire Louis, "Legalising Pimping, Dutch Style," Le Monde Diplomatique, 8 March 1997)

[arioch36]

Ironically, The Netherlands, international capital of "kiddy porn" vocally urges protection for children
(http://us.ilo.org/news/focus/dutch.html)

DUTCH MINISTER CALLS FOR "TIME-BOUND" ACTION AND WORLDWIDE MONITORING ON CHILD LABOR
Hansenne Proposes "Breakthrough" Action
Amsterdam--Delegates to the Amsterdam Child Labor Conference unanimously condemned the most abusive forms of child labor and called for "solidarity on a global scale to meet the challenge of 'eradicating child exploitation as a matter of paramount urgency.' "

[Stephen Jones]

so you've learnt to use a search engine Arioch, and you can even paste the more sensational stories you find.

I can fully understand that low pay as an EFL teacher, probably together wiht your generally wacky personality, prevents you form expressing your sexual obsessions any other way, but don't you think you could keep your ramblings to one thread only.

[Wolf]

[Joe C.]

[isabel]

Come on guys- believe what you want, but the facts about prostitution are pretty bad. If it meets your needs to believe otherwise, that is your problem.

If you frequent prostitutes, and want to believe that they really love what they are doing, carry on in your fantasy land. Just remember, condoms don't prevent all STDs, even if the moral consequences of your behavior don't concern you.

[Roger]

Amen, Chris!
Yesyesyes, the formerly so uptight, inhibited, prudish Dutch have discovered the rosy side of human flesh recently. We should not congratulate them because they should have done that all the time when they were showing their allegiance to Master Calvin. Instead, they became one of the world's most industrious, business-minded nations, colonising South Africa and Indonesia.
Curious to note that they do have legal privison to ban slavery. One year in jail? Not a deterrent. I only ask: For whom was this intended? I guess not for Dutch because the Dutch have not practised this - neither in their own country nor in SOuth Africa (the Boers!).
I guess it is a recent addition ("recent" meaning post-WW II). This is just a guess of mine, of course, since I speak no DUtch and do not know Holland so well.
Maybe this law is so lenient because most human traffickers are foreigners from Asian countries - difficult to catch (because they do not travel to Holland with every shipload of women). Maybe it is targeted at those who are desperate for money and act as guide for groups of II's.
I do not want to defend those spongers. Nor those pulling the strings from behind. But let us face reality: Foreign prostitutes in countries of the EU are a comparatively recent phenomenon directly linked to the collapse of the SOviet Union and communism in general. The first people to set foot in Berlin and Amsterdam, Paris and Barcelona were Russian 'bisnismin' with their connections that they were able to develop during communism's heyday in Moscow! With millions of US dollars (I suppose, your $ are of the US nationality) in amassed booty, none of which earned legally, they were quick in setting up shop in the West: Some specialised in carnapping (driving them to Poland, then re-registering them there and selling them to Russian, Ukrainian and Byelorussian buyers). Others dabbled in drugs. And, of course, there were the women...
And let me tell you a little about Russian women! Or women from other parts of east Europe!

I had a Czech girlfriend. I had several Russian girlfriends. I passed through Poland several times, and I was in the former Baltic states. It is much like in formerly-socialist China: the women just go for you, the seemingly-lonely white foreign national who dresses up differently, can't speak the local language, drinks in a fashionable bar in the evening and dances badly.
These girls often give a miss to their own handsome, hard-working and honest menfolk. What motivates them? Just the same as elsewhere: greed, selfishness, material worship. They have a lower moral threshold than you and I have!
But what is "moral"?
It seems that the Muslim and Christian thresholds in matters of sex are the highest. FOr women from non-Muslim or non-Christian backgrounds, this threshold appears to be ludicrous, false, even inhumane.
Many of my CHinese partners or acquaintances simply say "a monk leads an unhealthy life".

But back to your case against women traffickers: that is another story, and of course I am of the same opinion as you: It must be stopped!
But, who has the answer as to how to do this???
I suppose neither George Bush nor Saddam Hussein know it!

[Joe C.]

[arioch36]

Direct reply for Stephen Jones and others, Sensational stories? No, I just wanted to show how easy it is to get the basic information.

So I just went to China Prostitution, and pasted the first five non-repeating leads> yes, I know it it a lot, and most people won't look, because the truth is quite obvious for anyone who wants to look. No more sensational then finding the results looking at 6 on-line dictionaries for a grammar answer. The question is a little more serious, granted

[VC]

Ann Landers was in favor of prostitution. In a letter to Ann Landers a man wrote, "I believe it is an outrage that a woman whose only crime is making men happy for a fee should go to jail. Something is wrong with a society that thinks that way."
http://www.sexwork.com/subcontents/annlanders.html

I don't think trying to eradicate prostitution is realistic. It's going to happen anyway. Make it legal and pass laws which protect the rights of prostitutes.

[fluffi bunni]

This is a job discussion forum! What has prostitution got to do with getting a job as an ESL teacher, apart from being a possible avenue for supplementing an ESL teacher's meagre income!

[biffinbridge]

In the Middle East the synonym for 'tefl teacher' is '*beep*.'

[biffinbridge]

beep=w h o r e

[johnslat]

Dear biffinbridge,
" In the Middle East the synonym for 'tefl teacher' is w h o r e. "
Why just in the Middle East? Why not everywhere? And why just tefl teachers? Why not every profession? If working for money makes one a w h o r e, well, at least we're the high-priced ones in this field.
Regards,
John ( hmm, can a john be a w h o r e , too? )

[xiaoyu]

good topic chris.... completely agree with it.... the vast majority of women prostitutes do not do it because they like it. unfortunately for the men that try to think that way to make prostitution usage comfortable to their morals.... prostitutes are not nymphomaniacs and grow up thinking that is what they want to be. the vast majority are forced into through outside circumstances. this can be backed up by many psychology, sociology and women's studies papers and research projects.

if you want to look at a nation that has had legalized prostitution for some time and how it is run, how it effects that economy, etc. look into S. Korea's prostitution. I believe that a branch of the UN and some different women's organizations did a lot of research on it about 4 yrs ago. a girl i knew at university was doing her graduate thesis on prostitution in asia, there was a lot from s. korea.

a horrible situation for 100s of thousands of women, children (and yes, even some men) to live through every day.

xiaoyu