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[nrgstar2000]

Hello Forum !

Since all of you are experienced with the Turkish culture,
I'd like to ask:

Culture - can it be a reason for for things we find different : systems that doesn't work in turkey like they do were we came from because people are much more laid back and don't really care.. women who don't walk in the street because it's ayip and this is how the culture is

Or is it an exuse for these things happaning : systems dont work because people just use it as a reason for lazyness, bad behaviour in the streets, etc.

I'm actually giving the same facts from two different views - and wondering how you see it. view 1, view 2, both, or maybe another view, and give explanations please ! )

[dmb]

(psst you have 31 posts) I've been here so long I have been Turkified, but I am fundamentally lazy, so maybe it was unavoidable. But look at the UK and how many people people live on welfare? In Turkey, that doesn't exist and people have to do something to eat. State benefits don't pay out 30 grand a year or encourage people not to work and stay at home and have as many kids as possible so they can get extra money. In certain respects there is more of a work ethic here than the uk and in other respects there isn't

[nrgstar2000]

But I just throwed examples.
I think the question is more like a philosophical question with relation to Turkey. Can a Culture be an exuse for things that are not done in the "right" way or is it actually not the right way ?

I mean with the fact that you are right - look where turkey is comparing to England. So the question is who is "right" here ? Culture over progress, progress over culture ? (Its a real question I'm not trying to say either is a bad place)

[dmb]

Ok something to sleep on. I've never been happy with a(singular) Turkish culture. Compare Istanbul with Hatay, Mardin, Saniliurfa, Trabzon, Kars,etc very different.
Compare any two places in the Uk, not too different

Culture in Turkey is hard to define, it has so many as it is such a large country.
What is Turkish culture?

[nrgstar2000]

That's a good way to look at things.

I don't know how is Istanbul in this case, although I meant like general things I see even here in the forum.

Parents who are letting their kids make mistakes and do whatever they want in school for instance, "because they are kids"..

If you ask many people they will say "this is our culture". Is it an exuse for.. maybe not being able, or not caring, or anything else ?

Or another point of view : It's a reason, kids should be this way.

Exuce, or reason..

[dmb]

(if I am late for work tomorrow it's all your fault)(told you I was turkified)

[nrgstar2000]

HAHAHAAH

Exuse, or Reason

[justme]

I've often pondered this same question. Like lately, I've been editing some articles about laws and attitudes about rape in Turkey, and until recently, those laws were just sick. Many people's attitudes are sick too. No amount of political correctness and tolerance for other cultures can make me think stuff like that is okay. Same goes for honor killings. I try to be respectful, but I have my limits.

At the same time, I think 'who am I to judge?'

I also find it galling when something obnoxious happens, say, a beaurocratic nightmare or promises unkept or a backward way of thinking (and the old rape laws were indeed backward, as is the thinking behind them), and a Turk just says 'burası T�rkiye' as though it's some kind of excuse. It strikes me as insulting to Turkey and Turkish people, with an implication that they're too lazy or stupid or 3rd world to do anything about it, and we silly foreigners are wasting our breath by caring. On one hand, they rant on about the negative views Europeans have of them, on the other hand, they seem to have internalized it with this statement. I guess it makes me mad because I think they're better than that.

Though political correctness and tolerance for other cultures tells me they just say that because they don't like it when we say negative things about their country, quite rightly I suppose....

[Baba Alex]

[justme]

That one is frustrating too-- I've had many students say that in reference to foreign films, music, food... As though being Turkish precludes you from trying or even thinking about anything new...

[Golightly]

culture is a very difficult thing to pin down - can anyone give me a non-glib definition of English or American culture? I often felt that Turkish people were deeply proud of their cultures and traditions, but when it came down to asking what these actually were, they'd mumble stuff about folk dancing, eating ceratin types of food and their history. But when i asked about history, it seemed as though there was some kind of dead end when you got back to the 1920's. It wasn't as if they don't know names and dates etc, it's just that there didn't seem to be any connection as such. I not exactly explaining myself well, but I feel that Turkish people feel deeply proud of being Turkish, but aren't exactly sure why, and this leads to a kind of mental lacuna between who the individual actually is, and what they feel they should be because that's what they've been told! As in: I like to drink boza on cold winter nights because that what should be done on cold winter nights; I don't like opera because it's not Turkish; Bir sey olmaz abi! - something happens - burasi turkiye.
However, this isn't something that happens only in Turkey: I think it occurs in quite a few countries, but in different forms.

[dmb]

You didn't ask about Scottish culture. Right that's it.... I'm off down the pub to get pi$$ed. How's that for culture? Not a bagpipe in sight. And did you know the Kilt was a 19th century invention by the English?

[Baba Alex]

[justme]

Nationalism, patriotism, and cultural pride really strike me as odd-- I mean, it's one thing here I can't get used to. It never really struck me to be proud of American culture because it doesn't seem like there's anything really special about it. They taught us to be patriotic in school, and I said the Pledge of Allegiance every morning until I learned what the words mean (then I quit because of the 'under God' part). People thumping their chests with red-blooded American pride and patriotism are usually politicians or idiots (think Bush or those marines you see on CNN going 'America! F*ck yeah we're the greatest country in the world!'), and who wants to align themselves with those people?

It's a learned thing, as baba alex says, like a knee jerk reaction. An implanted but un-analysed thought. At least that's what it's like when Americans do it-- it's the same as saying 'I believe everything I've been told and everything I hear in the news and why should I waste any energy thinking about it? I'm ignorant and lovin' it!'

So of course when I hear Turks being patriotic, nationalistic, or ethno-centric, I tend to think the same thing. How were they successfully made to have the exact same opinions on everything Turkish? Why only Atat�rk and no one else? At the same time, I think it's wrong of me. There are perfectly intelligent and rational people who (seem to) espouse these ideas, and they can't possibly be the same ignoramuses as the Americans who do it. My husband frustrates me to no end when he starts on about how the Kurds should be slaughtered, the Armenian thing never happened, the whole world hates and envies Turkey, and the religious should be smashed, because I know he's smarter than that, and he should give himself more credit. He's not an idiot. If he really talks about it, he certainly has subtlties of opinion, valid criticisms, and questions about whether all of it is really right, but he's very hesitant to admit it. Maybe that's what's so hard to understand-- why people are so afraid to say, even in private, that they might think differently from everyone else?

[dmb]

I'm supposed to be teaching from 4-6 today, but the class was cancelled a couple of days ago because at 5.00 there is going to be a fire drill. Isn't the point of a fire drill is that you dont know when it is?