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[Minhang Oz]

Like most of us, I'm well into final exams. These can provide a useful insight into what makes Chinese students tick.
The Writing Exam- fashioned on the IELTS model, this included a letter.
The students had to write to a friend in Australia, explaining why they couldn't come for a holiday. The no.1 excuse given was " I have to study for my CET". So, the logic is, why go to an English speaking country when you can stay in China and stare at a mind numbing text book? The second excuse? "Because of the SARS". No one established a connection- there was just the indisputable assumption that travel gives you SARS.

The Oral Test- General conversation convinced me that the entire college population of Shanghai will be working at Maccas and KFC over the break.All boys play computer games and sleep. All girls watch TV and go shopping. No local student has ever traveled further than Suzhou [2 hours], and that made them feel uncomfortable. Shanghai is the centre of China, the world, the universe. Given a random topic, the student can turn it into basketball, computers, shopping. Foreign food,ie, Maccas and KFC is unhealthy, three bowls of MSG saturated pig fat a day isn't.

And so on. Is this a cynical and unfair characterisation? More thoughts please.

[Mac]

I agree with you ming! I have just finished teaching a writing course at the college here! I would have my students write a paper every 2 weeks and I would get the same 2 topics for 3 papers love and friends. For their final exam I told them I was sick and tired of reading papers on love and friends. So I gave them a choice out of 4 topics most of them did Why I wanted to go to College. I found that most of my students wrote an honest evaluation of why they wanted to come to a school of higher learning. In most cases I have found that the ideals that students discussed in their papers don't match their actions in the classroom.

[Roger]

Yes, the Chinese mind... Essays tell you a lot more about the writers than they think they are telling you about a given topic!
I am tired of such exercises too. I give few choices. I want them to finish an open-ended story whose beginning I print out, with 20 to 40 dotted lines for them to write on.
There is the story of a person visiting afriend in town X, who follows instructions given him in writing on how to locate his friend. He alights from the train, walks out of the station and sees a bus no. 241. He boards it.
The instruction, however, clearly told him to take bus no. 214. Now, what is going to happen? Is he going to meet up with his friend the same day? How?
You get a lot more variation then, and it is more fun for me to read their essays!

[bobo the clown]

Ming you forgot the all interesting answer for why they are studying English...With China entry to WTO, English is important!

This is the whole answer. I have not received, in my three years of teaching here, any connection or supporting sentences that would illustrate the importance of speaking English and the WTO.

But I still have hope.

[yaco]

Roger, I agree with your point encouraging students to think laterally.

In oral english classes, I will often ask students the following

Can you recommend me a Japanese restaurant ?
Where do I post a letter ?
Can you give me directions about Suzhou ?

Often students cannot provide this information but I encourage to ask their fellow students !!!!!! Sometimes the students are to embarrassed to admit they do not have an answer. I then advise the students these exercises are about communication rather than having the correct answer.

I am interested in how Chinese students or the general population would answer these questions in Mandarin.

[klasies]

Yaco

Can you recommend me a Japanese restaurant ?
Where do I post a letter ?
Can you give me directions about Suzhou ?

Yaco, I am not one for critising grammar and spelling and so on, I often err on both, but God man how can you ask questions like......?!?!?!?!?!

Andre

[beerdang]

I do not think chinese students get proper training over the years of how to develop their ideas. Since the education system is test oriented, the only place that will require them to write is for chinse language. Typilcally the chinese teaches will teach you a winning formula to suceed on the tests and ensure a good score. When our whole future depends on these tests, nobody is willing to do too much of free thinking to bare the risks.

I'd say most students do not get the idea of supporting their arguments with details. At least they do not know what to say to support. You might be able to help them to do that. Make sure they realize they don't have to be famous people or cite an ancient story to convice the readers.

Also most of them will rely on teachers to feed them the information to copy down. It won't hurt to have some outlines and talk about what you will say about the topics. I am sure it takes a while for them to be brave.

[Hamish]

I have just finished reading my students final essays. I am VERY pleased with their progress.

I have taught the class with the following assumptions and �technique.�

1. The kids already know more about the grammar of English than I do, or they need.
2. In fact, they know so many rules, usually taught to them in Chinese, that they are frightened to use them. (I learned, at age 61, what a polymorph is from a Chinese English teacher, age 22. Who gives a fat feather?)
3. Their basic problem is that they have forgotten, if they ever understood, that the fundamental purpose of a language is to communicate ideas from one brain to another.
4. Therefore, we do not discuss sentence structure beyond saying �A sentence begins with a capital letter, ends with a period, and expresses a complete thought.
5. And. Paragraph structure is �A paragraph is a bucket of sentences that are all about the same subject. Change the subject; start a new bucket.�
6. Stand in a corner and read what you write aloud to yourself and you will hear mistakes and find a way to correct them.
7. Watch CCTV9 spoken English at least an hour every day.
8. Talk with each other in English all the time.
9. Listen to as much English on the radio as you can.
10. Spend two days thinking, at least, before you start writing your rough draft.
11. Compile a �list� of your ideas as you are thinking.
12. Place the �list� in some order that makes sense to you.
13. Write a beginning draft.
14. Write a final draft that shows some changes from the initial draft.
15. Hand in all your work at the beginning of the period on the day it is due.
16. There will be an assignment every week.
17. I don�t even read most of the papers. I don�t believe that the students or I benefit from red marks all over the paper. What the kids need most is LOTS of practice using the rules they already knew all too well when they came to college.

This �system� works VERY well for me.

Regards,

[Bertrand]

[yaco]

Dear Bertrand

Please complete the following exercise.

Next time you have a brief conversation with another person, do the following.

Write on a piece of paper, the entire conversation - word for word.

And see how grammatically correct the conversation is.

Effective oral communication is about people understanding each other not always speaking perfectly grammatical English.

[yaco]

Thanks Hamish for providing such useful information.

[Hamish]

EHhhhhhh.....

How about mine?

regards,

[Chairman Roberto]

tryin' to delete!

[Chairman Roberto]

Great post, Hamish! I will more than likely use most of your list on my first handout next semester, when I shall begin my infamous "Writers' Bootcamp." These posts are the reason I log on to this board in the first place.

Sunaru--You REALLY have your students read the posts on this message board?? Wow, that's a nutty idea...but it's so nutty, it just might work! The biggest problems I would forsee (if you're serious) are all the wacked-out idioms, slang, and cultural references. And what would they make of the flame wars? Seriously, if your students are really reading these mini-masterpices and catastrophes, I really want to hear more about it.

Speaking of which, I'm thinking of having my students read some short excerpts from an EXCELLENT, brutally honest travelouge from a foreign traveler...about THEIR hometown, good ol' Jishou. It's written in concise and natural English, and would fit nicely in my campaign against the "Happy Happy Joy Joy" textbook English the students are subjected to. Check it out at http://www.mishen.net/index.html. Don't worry, Hamish, I'm changing names to protect the guilty as well as the innoncent. (I asked permission of Michael). Please PM me if you have any advice/admonishments.

Roberto

[pratyeka]

well, i reckon americans use yaco-esque grammar quite frequently.

(now, can you figure out which country i come from using the previous sentence? ...ya reckon? )