Job Discussion Forums

[True Dreamer]

What happened to Ramadhan Mubarak thread? Has it been deleted or something? I posted a reply to it answering Albulbul and Hod ... suddenly a message came saying that "Only moderaters on this forum can post a reply" !! Two minutes later the whole thread is gone!!

What a shame!

[veiledsentiments]

Most likely it turned into the common spitting contest with a religious theme...

Always good for a thread deletion...

VS

[True Dreamer]

You must have missed the replies VS. The thread was most probably deleted due to the comments made by Hod NOT due to some sort of "religious spitting" at each other !

I really wanted to answer the question Albulbul and the comments made by Hod. I truly believe that Albulbul deserve to know all about my reciprocation and ditto for Hod who deserve to know all about my "soggy sprouts" meal and conking to Lizzie the II.

What a shame.... Albulbul and Hod will never learn all about that

[High Plains Drifter]

Hod�s a jerk, but I could have dealt with it. Dave's has become so heavily censored by the Thought Police that it's become a colossal bore. In most forums days and weeks go by between new posts�no one cares anymore.

I used to check out Dave�s everyday, but I�ve really lost interest.

Why doesn�t someone clone Dave�s and let people say what they want. I just thought of a great name for it: Rave�s ESL Caf�.

[Hod]

[shadowfax]

Furthermore, nearly all the jobs advertised under international jobs are now of the sweat-shop / hogwan variety. Tefl is vastly oversubscribed. The situation would improve enormously if entry to tefl/tesol courses were largely restricted to people with a degree in English Literature or English Language (with at least an upper second grade at BA).
The typical case of a technician manqu�, or a person who scraped a BA in something or other, and later does an MA in tefl to become a shallow, bothersome, bogus pundit, is a further erosion of the standing of efl / esol teaching. I know many will take great umbrage at this (especially from amongst those upstart philistians who take ignominious and time-serving refuge in the purlieus of elt), but desperate diseases require rigorous remedies.
Lay on Macduffs! But not with vast reams of drivel and hollow 'authorities'!

[High Plains Drifter]

[shadowfax]

What I really mean is that the literary basis has been wrested from its rightful place as the pivot of language teaching, and of the education of language teachers. I value the vocation of teacher extremely highly. Teachers of English should be on a par with doctors, members of the legal profession, etc., and not relegated to the status of bottom feeders. One way of restoring that status is through insisting on academic accomplishment and discipline in the area that is central to the whole endeavour.
Another question which is related: will Europe ever become a serious partner and counterbalance to the United States while it has no unifying language? I think not. What we see now in the theatre of Europe is mere window dressing, jargon, and politic quackery. America is united by a common language and all that this entrains in terms of culture and spiritual identity (although I hold that the artistic culture of the USA is increasingly debased and degraded in its populist manifestations, so that the cohesion provided by the common language is substantially undermined). Europe was at least united by a common language under the Romans. The language and renaissance literary culture of England emulated and indeed superseded the paramountcy of that of Greece and Rome. Despite the hype what happens in Hollywood, or the torrent of moneyspinning modern novels in the USA and modern Britain, despite the boasts of technology, the trumpeting of economic and political science, the false levelling of the pop-music culture, the centre and highpoint of the world's creative spirit is located in the England of the 16th to late 17th centuries. It is doubtful if humanity will ever arrive at those heights again. To do so, Europe and America need to experience a Reawakening to the apogee of their cultural identity. Only then will the West raise its head high and lead the world out of the nauseous quagmire into which it is now descending.
By the way, I have heard of neither of those two people you mention so it is impossible I should have imitated them.
Here endeth the homily.

[ctmiezio]

I couldn't agree with Shadowfax more about improving the profession, indeed, half the time I feel like a highly trained dancing monkey.

I have consulted with Korean and Saudi universities about curriculum. Unfortunately, when it comes to teaching literature or improving standards within the profession, we face some huge hurdles. One is the teachers themselves. We are in a profession chocked full of backpackers and people who simply couldn't get a job elsewhere. The true teacher within the profession is rare. For example, the academic corrdinator at my university freely admits he hates teaching, he simply likes the money in Saudi.

Problem #2 is that most students have no true interest in English. This is compounded by universities that basically are performing lip service to education. For example, at a Korean university, the dean called me to his office and told me to stop kicking kids out of class for cheating. His rationale? "This isn't an AMerican university, so go easy." So in essence this dean was telling me to let the kids cheat.

I could write a book on this subject, but suffice it to say, while I agree completely with Shadowfax, actually improving standards within the profession is almost an impossible task. I personally gave up and am contenting myself with counting my rials.

[basiltherat]

[High Plains Drifter]

Yep, in what other field of academia can you study for a whole month and then call yourself a "teacher"? Is it any wonder we�re not taken seriously by other academics? Is it any wonder you can't make a living in this field except in the Middle East where you have to be a "dancing monkey" for the least motivated students on Earth?

Actually, studying for a whole month ought to qualify you for a Ph.D. You can become �certified� and call yourself a teacher in only two days! Look at this ad currently in the International Job Board: Weekend Foundation TESOL Certificate - Train for 2 days in Canada and start teaching overseas immediately! What an idiot I was to spend a year and a half in grad school when I could have gotten all the training I needed in just two days.

[veiledsentiments]

[ctmiezio]

I think you were lucky, VS. Seriously. I think most of us teaching in Saudi universities are generally teaching very unmotivated students who don't study, don't do homework, and don't listen in class. This describes about 70% of my students, and I'm a good teacher. I have a few bright ones who sit at the front and even take the occasional note, but everyone from rows 3 to the back is busy zoning out in la-la land, waiting for the 50 minutes to expire. And then they get pissed off when they fail a test.

I speak Arabic. I have said many times, in Arabic, that you must study and listen if you ever want to learn a foreign language. I also pointed out (in Arabic) that if I can learn Arabic, then you can learn English. It merely takes some effort and concentration. However these two ingredients are quite absent from most of my students.

I don't think this is a Saudi phenomenon. It was only a bit better in Korea. I also taught Afrikaners in South Africa and while they were a bit more motivated, it wasn't by much.

We have to keep in mind that English is a required subject, and most of our students don't actually want to be in our class. This is unfortunate and takes a bit of the joy out of teaching. This is why I described myself as a "highly trained dancing monkey" above. Occasionally I realize that nobody is listening, and I'm working my arse off trying to explain grammar to NOBODY.

Anyway if you never encountered this, VS, count yourself lucky. Me, as I said before, I take solace in my newly-fattened bank account.

[veiledsentiments]

I never taught in Saudi - by choice - but HPD directed his comment to the 'Middle East' not just KSA.

That is why I had to jump in and support my mostly great students. (oh and I avoided this type of students and still have a VERY nicely padded bank account. )

It wasn't completely luck, I chose my jobs and employers carefully.

VS

[shadowfax]

Despite what VS says, the comment of ctmiezio stands good as a general description according to the vast majority of teachers I have spoken to concerning Middle East students.
The 'magic' word tertiary cannot disguise the fact that SQU has descended to a third world sweatshop, as all Oman's educational establishments appear to have.
The greedy ignorant capitalists seem to have done their work well. What it was in VS's times I wouldn't hazard to say.
One of the principle causes of poor student motivation seems to be the underestimation of self-directed learning and the slavish and tyrannical view that students should attend 7 classes a day.