|
Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Students and Teachers from Around the World!"
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
got2go
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Posts: 33
|
 Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2005 9:36 pm Post subject: Certified Documents |
 |
|
I received an offer for a job in Sohar and have a couple of questions.
Do all the credentials (degrees, teaching cert., etc.) have to be certified before leaving to Oman?
What are the chances that I arrive in Oman and they tell me that I am missing a document and they send me back!
Will I be getting a final contract signed BEFORE I leave my place of origin confirming all documents are finalized? And will the document be signed?
Are there English elementary schools in Sohar? I have been searching the web and cannot find anything about any school. It makes me wonder if there are English schools in Sohar?
Thanks sooo much for your input. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
veiledsentiments
Joined: 20 Feb 2003
Posts: 17644
Location: USA
|
| Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2005 10:42 pm Post subject: Re: Certified Documents |
|
|
| got2go wrote: |
| Do all the credentials (degrees, teaching cert., etc.) have to be certified before leaving to Oman? |
Ask them. They should tell you if you need them certified.
| got2go wrote: |
| What are the chances that I arrive in Oman and they tell me that I am missing a document and they send me back! |
I have never heard of it happening... ever...
| got2go wrote: |
| Will I be getting a final contract signed BEFORE I leave my place of origin confirming all documents are finalized? And will the document be signed? |
I doubt it. I never saw a contract before going to a Gulf job and it was always signed after I arrived.
| got2go wrote: |
| Are there English elementary schools in Sohar? I have been searching the web and cannot find anything about any school. It makes me wonder if there are English schools in Sohar? |
I think I talked about this on the other thread. The last I heard there was only an Indian or Pakistani English school there. Have you asked them? The University should be the one telling you this.
VS |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Tarka_littleotter
Joined: 12 Sep 2005
Posts: 69
Location: Oman
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 19, 2005 10:05 am Post subject: |
|
|
Hi, I'm doing exactly the same thing as you at the moment.
You have to have all your documents certified and faxed off before they sort out your visa, and you can't travel there without your visa in place, so the chances of you getting there and being sent home are slim!
I had to get me degree and CELTA certificates certifed, which meant I had to get them signed by a solicitor, then stamped by our Foreign Office then certified by the Oman Embassy. It drove me mad as the Embassy closes at 12 every day, meaning I had to get a train at ridiculous o'clock in the morning to get there on time!!
Hope you get it sorted out soon. I'm hoping my visa will be ready soon and I'll be in Sohar before the end of Ramadan.
See you there then!!
Lisa |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
veiledsentiments
Joined: 20 Feb 2003
Posts: 17644
Location: USA
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 19, 2005 2:52 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Since got2go is US, the procedures are different and I posted ages ago on the procedure that I last used. It was relatively easy for me as I was already in the area suburbs. Contact the Omani Embassy in DC and they may be able to direct you to companies that will handle this for you. I learned the procedure by calling the State Department in DC (and being transferred numerous times with long holds). I did this procedure twice - once in 1988 and once in 1999 and it was the same, but it could possibly have changed.
http://www.eslcafe.com/forums/job/viewtopic.php?t=11066
Getting ones documents attested or certified is one of the most meaningless procedures ever devised since one can start with completely bogus documents and no one will know the difference. It does NOT prove that one ever even attended the university, no less actually graduated. 
But, as usual, common sense or logic doesn't enter in...
VS |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
DesertStar
Joined: 02 Oct 2005
Posts: 80
Location: UAE Oasis
|
| Posted: Sun Oct 23, 2005 5:35 am Post subject: |
|
|
| veiledsentiments wrote: |
| Getting ones documents attested or certified is one of the most meaningless procedures ever devised since one can start with completely bogus documents and no one will know the difference. It does NOT prove that one ever even attended the university, no less actually graduated.VS |
The process of getting documents certified, attested, etc. is the most painful part of the process, too much! Time consuming, frustrating, and expensive!
I don't think that it's totally futile though! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
got2go
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Posts: 33
|
| Posted: Sun Oct 23, 2005 1:58 pm Post subject: thanks! |
|
|
Thanks for all the replies to my inquiries.
I will await for them to advise me on certifing the documents. How long does certifing the documents usally take?
Thanks again for your inputs! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
veiledsentiments
Joined: 20 Feb 2003
Posts: 17644
Location: USA
|
| Posted: Sun Oct 23, 2005 2:40 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| DesertStar wrote: |
| veiledsentiments wrote: |
| Getting ones documents attested or certified is one of the most meaningless procedures ever devised since one can start with completely bogus documents and no one will know the difference. It does NOT prove that one ever even attended the university, no less actually graduated.VS |
The process of getting documents certified, attested, etc. is the most painful part of the process, too much! Time consuming, frustrating, and expensive!
I don't think that it's totally futile though! |
Futile? No, since it fulfills a requirement. What it does NOT do is prove that you ever attended or graduated from any college or university... which is theoretically the reason. I could have used a handy/dandy computer program to create what I started with and as long as it is a real insitution, no problem. There is no necessity that one had ever even stepped foot on the campus.
In order to confirm that, your employer must actually get it in writing from the institution. In my years overseas, only HCT did that. (no paper chase of expensive, but meaningless little stamps and wax and ribbons).
VS |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
veiledsentiments
Joined: 20 Feb 2003
Posts: 17644
Location: USA
|
| Posted: Sun Oct 23, 2005 2:47 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Sorry got2go, forgot your question... this attestation/certification is one of my pet peeves... 
If you do 100% of the process in Washington DC, it takes most of a couple of days - even when you live there and know the city. (one of the most difficult steps is to get it notarized as notaries are hard to find these days... and to do it in two days like this, you must have it notarized in DC).
If you are away from DC, you can have it notarized in the city where you are. Then it must be couriered to your state capital for the first step. (unless you can drive to the state capital and do the first two steps there yourself) Next you courier it to DC for the State Department, and then to the Embassy.
Thus it can take a full week, and will cost between $100-200. (I'm guesstimating here). Be sure to call the embassy first and confirm things and see if they can assist.
VS |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
DesertStar
Joined: 02 Oct 2005
Posts: 80
Location: UAE Oasis
|
| Posted: Mon Oct 24, 2005 4:50 am Post subject: |
|
|
| veiledsentiments wrote: |
Futile? No, since it fulfills a requirement. What it does NOT do is prove that you ever attended or graduated from any college or university... which is theoretically the reason. I could have used a handy/dandy computer program to create what I started with and as long as it is a real insitution, no problem. There is no necessity that one had ever even stepped foot on the campus.
In order to confirm that, your employer must actually get it in writing from the institution. In my years overseas, only HCT did that. (no paper chase of expensive, but meaningless little stamps and wax and ribbons).
VS |
Unless there's something I'm missing, the authentication process starts at your institution (the very one that issued the certificate), they're the ones who verify (for a fee of course) that the certificate you are presenting is real, stamp it, and then you move on to the next one, local notary, state, then State Department, and finally the embassy of the respective country.
Bullet proof procedures are a rarity anyway these days. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
veiledsentiments
Joined: 20 Feb 2003
Posts: 17644
Location: USA
|
| Posted: Mon Oct 24, 2005 2:44 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| DesertStar wrote: |
Unless there's something I'm missing, the authentication process starts at your institution (the very one that issued the certificate), they're the ones who verify (for a fee of course) that the certificate you are presenting is real, stamp it, and then you move on to the next one, local notary, state, then State Department, and finally the embassy of the respective country.
Bullet proof procedures are a rarity anyway these days. |
Yes, you have misunderstood the first step in the process.
Step one is to take your 'graduation certificates' (the ones your uni gave you if you did actually graduate, but nothing to stop you from creating such on a computer). You make a photo copy of said fake or real document and attach it to a note saying something to the effect that: "I certify that these are true and real copies." You must sign this piece of paper in front of a notary public, whose job is merely to get a photo ID showing that you are who you claim to be. (then the state certifies that the notary is a legal notary, the State Department certifies that your state is actually a state - and some say that they check that your university exists but I doubt it, then the embassy certifies that the State Department did its job).
Your institutions do not enter into this process in any way and do not even have knowledge that you did it. All this process proves is that you can run a copy machine. and pay the fees to get the stamps in the right offices. And it may also proves that you can create a realistic looking "certificate" from a university.
It is complete farce... and I doubt that anyone in Oman ever looks at it anyway. They asked me to bring the originals, which I did. They "looked" at them and handed them back.
And for that you spend two days running around Washington DC hunting parking spaces, waiting in long lines, and pay a significant amount of money. As far as I can see it is merely a way to separate you from your money and put it into the hands of various governmental agencies.
VS |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
DesertStar
Joined: 02 Oct 2005
Posts: 80
Location: UAE Oasis
|
| Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2005 5:55 am Post subject: |
|
|
| veiledsentiments wrote: |
Step one is to take your 'graduation certificates' (the ones your uni gave you if you did actually graduate, but nothing to stop you from creating such on a computer). You make a photo copy of said fake or real document and attach it to a note saying something to the effect that: "I certify that these are true and real copies." You must sign this piece of paper in front of a notary public, whose job is merely to get a photo ID showing that you are who you claim to be. (then the state certifies that the notary is a legal notary, the State Department certifies that your state is actually a state - and some say that they check that your university exists but I doubt it, then the embassy certifies that the State Department did its job).
Your institutions do not enter into this process in any way and do not even have knowledge that you did it. All this process proves is that you can run a copy machine. and pay the fees to get the stamps in the right offices. And it may also proves that you can create a realistic looking "certificate" from a university.
VS |
Not quite right as I know it- the way I did it according to my employer's instructions: Process one starts with you giving back those certificates to your instituation to certify them. They do that by checking your academic record with them, graduation date, etc. and then put their certification seal on it. Thus, your institution is part of the process, the very first step. From there you take it to state notary, Department of State, embassy, etc.
You can't stand before a public notary with your ID to prove that a certificate is original. It doesn't make any sense. The point isn't proving that you're who you claim to be, but that your certificate is real. For this reason, you get it notarized first by your institution (the one that issued it).
Perhaps different employers/countries have different requirements. My experience was as I described above. I hated going thru the whole process, but then again I can't say it doesn't prove anything because it does. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
veiledsentiments
Joined: 20 Feb 2003
Posts: 17644
Location: USA
|
| Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2005 2:23 pm Post subject: |
|
|
You haven't mentioned who it is that you worked for in Oman or when. Or perhaps you are talking about procedures for some other country?
I have certainly never heard of anyone from the US being required by Oman to do anything like that. I've done it twice and helped dozens to do it in the last 16 years. Mine is the exact procedure as explained by both the Omani Embassy, the US State Department, and a couple of 'fixers' in the US. (naturally they left out the part about using fake documents)
And we are speaking only of Oman here. I have tried to explain to Omani ministry officials and Omani employers that these procedures are meaningless, but I have not heard of any changes. Both of my employers declared that this was a requirement of the Ministry of Education - not theirs. As a matter of fact, Oman is the only country where I was ever required to do this. The Emirates, Kuwait, and Egypt never required this process at all...
VS |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
DesertStar
Joined: 02 Oct 2005
Posts: 80
Location: UAE Oasis
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2005 5:01 am Post subject: |
|
|
| veiledsentiments wrote: |
| You haven't mentioned who it is that you worked for in Oman or when. Or perhaps you are talking about procedures for some other country?...And we are speaking only of Oman here.VS |
This discussion was prompted by your rather general comment about the value of such procedure:
| veiledsentiments wrote: |
| Getting ones documents attested or certified is one of the most meaningless procedures ever devised since one can start with completely bogus documents and no one will know the difference. It does NOT prove that one ever even attended the university, no less actually graduated.VS |
Above and beyond employer's country, the process is useful- though aggravating  .
| veiledsentiments wrote: |
| The Emirates, Kuwait, and Egypt never required this process at all...VS |
Not true, anymore. My current UAE employer requires the procedure I described above of all new hirees (steps posted on their website). Perhaps the issue of when is relevant here. Evidently, some things have changed from when you were in this part of the world. Not always for the better I should add  . |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
veiledsentiments
Joined: 20 Feb 2003
Posts: 17644
Location: USA
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2005 2:51 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Well Desertstar, perhaps you hadn't noticed that you are on the "Oman" board, and I was responding to a person asking about getting documents done for a job in "Oman." 
As it happens your description was not accurate for Oman and misleading for our OP - a newbie - who may not realize that I am talking about Oman, and you were not. (if I couldn't tell that, I'm sure she couldn't either) I will happily step aside and let you respond to someone on the board sections of which you have knowledge and experience. (so it seems that 'some' employers in the UAE are requiring it now?)
I stand by my comment that the process in Oman is ridiculous, expensive, and a complete waste of time. It is a shame that they don't all adopt the common sense approach used by HCT in the past, which was to have you sign a letter to your colleges and universities releasing them to send the appropriate information directly to HCT. One step and costs you not one penny... and it actually PROVES that you have a degree. Every institution in the US will mail out a transcript within days for either free or a nominal fee - that is all that is needed - all the rest is just a way for the governments to screw us out of money.
VS
(I've noticed that quite a few things have changed for the worse since I left the ME... do you think this is a cause/effect thing? ) |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
DesertStar
Joined: 02 Oct 2005
Posts: 80
Location: UAE Oasis
|
| Posted: Sat Oct 29, 2005 4:58 am Post subject: |
|
|
| veiledsentiments wrote: |
| Well Desertstar, perhaps you hadn't noticed that you are on the "Oman" board, and I was responding to a person asking about getting documents done for a job in "Oman." |
I noticed I was on the Oman forum. Again I was debating your general statement.
| veiledsentiments wrote: |
| As it happens your description was not accurate for Oman and misleading for our OP - a newbie - who may not realize that I am talking about Oman, and you were not. |
Not accurate and misleading? Simply because you couldn't tell?
| veiledsentiments wrote: |
| (if I couldn't tell that, I'm sure she couldn't either) |
Not necessarily 
| veiledsentiments wrote: |
| I will happily step aside and let you respond to someone on the board sections of which you have knowledge and experience. |
Getting a bit territorial, aren't we?
| veieldsentiments wrote: |
| (so it seems that 'some' employers in the UAE are requiring it now?) |
I'm not going to reciprocate and say to you 'speak of current knowledge and experience or else you'd be misleading others'
| veiledsentiments wrote: |
| I stand by my comment that the process in Oman is ridiculous, expensive, and a complete waste of time. It is a shame that they don't all adopt the common sense approach used by HCT in the past, which was to have you sign a letter to your colleges and universities releasing them to send the appropriate information directly to HCT. One step and costs you not one penny... and it actually PROVES that you have a degree. Every institution in the US will mail out a transcript within days for either free or a nominal fee - that is all that is needed - all the rest is just a way for the governments to screw us out of money. |
This system works best within the US. Beyond that, it would certainly prove that you have a degree, if- and only if- it GETS there. I know of people who had horror stories of documents mailed directly to employers in the ME (e.g., misplaced or lost douments even after being received by HR). That's why I always preferred to -hold my nose- go thru the process and deliver mine by hand (my own that is  ). Besides, HCT is one efficient institution compared to the rest, don't expect same from all (mind you, you'd still have to authenticate everything else, birth/marriage/divorce certificates, previous employer/experience statements, etc.). |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
This page is maintained by the one and only Dave Sperling.
Contact Dave's ESL Cafe
Copyright © 2018 Dave Sperling. All Rights Reserved.
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
