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Carolina
Joined: 25 Jan 2006
Posts: 11
Location: Buenos Aires
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 Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2006 12:07 am Post subject: Why BA ?? Why Why Why?? |
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I'm an Argentinian English teacher who has been studying English since I was in first grade at primary school. I got my degree at UCA university, which took me a long time and hard work. I love being a teacher, love English and cannot picture myself doing anything else.
Nevertheless I do sometimes wonder what could my life have been like if I hadn't persued this career. I'm 30, single and living with my parents because as you all natives very well explain, it's impossible for me (esl teacher in Buenos Aires) to make ends meet, let alone rent an apartment or go on holiday. So, I can't help but wonder, why do YOU native speakers of the English language, living in USA or Britain, would come here to BA to teach English, already knowing how little money you can make, how difficult things are here and above all, readind all those posts describing so well our bizarre argentinian customs, traditions, habits ????
Why? What for?? Just to learn Spanish??? Is it worth it???
Enlighten me, please.
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carlos-england
Joined: 16 Jul 2004
Posts: 165
Location: Buenos Aires - Cabalitto
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| Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2006 12:20 pm Post subject: |
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Well may I step up first and say how wonderful your country
is. I think thats one thing we all agree on.
I myself am half South American. So as far as being attracted
to the place because of cultural reasons and what not, that is
what a lot of it is about for me. It is a safe place to live, the food
is good and the women beautiful and believe it or not the culture
is quite similar to the UK. Except you don't have our awful weather.
Like anywhere else that isn't home. The place takes a lot of getting
used to but with me within 2 weeks it is like home! The people are
very friendly so thats a plus also. You think of how big Buenos Aires
actually is but the people are small town friendly, which is amazing.
I wouldn't bring my kids up there I'll be honest but living in a Spanish
speaking country I would pick Argentina over Spain anytime. |
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moot point
Joined: 22 Feb 2005
Posts: 441
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| Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2006 2:52 pm Post subject: |
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To OP.
What a great post! I've wondered the same. I have a Pure and Applied Science Degree in Geophysics. It sounds wonderful and exotic, doesn't it? But the fact is (was), is that with such a qualification would not be enough to enter such an industry. My profs. advised to pursue a Master's degree.
But I was fed up with being broke so went to the employment office in Toronto, Ontario, Canada seeking adviced. The middle-aged woman speaking with a strong Indian accent said to me, "Oh, you are a young white English boy with a Bachelor's degree. You are ranked the seond-most likely of NOT being able to find a job in Canada."
So it is that the degree you worked so hard for (as I did, too) has absolutely no meaning anymore. It is a given for most to go on to tertiary education. It's simply not enough so you find foreigners from richer countries coming to teach in your domain. |
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Aramas
Joined: 13 Feb 2004
Posts: 874
Location: Slightly left of Centre
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| Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2006 5:53 pm Post subject: Re: Why BA ?? Why Why Why?? |
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| Carolina wrote: |
Enlighten me, please.
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Well, it's like this. We first-worlders are so decadent and disillusioned, that some of us are just sick to death of conspicuous consumerism. I know it's obscene when half the planet's population is hungry, but that's how it is. We earn enough so that we can buy a house and a new car in our early twenties, and after that it's just a never-ending procession of consumer durables - cars, SUV's, motorcycles, sailboats, jet-skis, ski boats, beachhouses, pools, hi-fis, microwaves, toaster ovens, bread makers, electric juicers, wide-screen HDTV's, skiing holidays, etc.. It's the gleaming hamster-wheel of doom. Life in the economically priveleged countries is all about the stuff that we own.
As an example, I bought my first new dirt bike with my own money when I was 11, and my first road bike, sports car and ski boat when I was 18. By the time I bought my first house at 24 (in a very nice inner suburb by the beach in Melbourne) I had owned 2 Alfa Romeos, a Lotus and a BMW.
Some of us aren't too happy about a life dedicated to the aquisition of stuff, and are quite satisfied if we can live in an interesting foreign country and earn enough to just get by. We exchange all of our shiny things for shiny new experiences in shiny new cultures. In some ways it's even more bizzarre than the consumer-go-round, but perhaps some of us are just naturally perverse. I suppose we're just snobbishly consuming 'authentic cultural experiences' while pooh-poohing the hordes of ignorant tourists and smelly backpackers that are essentially doing the same thing, but for only a few weeks a year. In a sense we're on an extended holiday, and doing a bit of English teaching on the side.
The funny thing is, people that don't have a lot of shiny things seem to value those strange, old fashioned things like, well...other people. And of course, we intrepid little shiny-new-experience-seekers find that terribly quaint and charming, not to mention strangely appealing. Throw in a few impoverished peons on donkeys and we're in hog heaven.
You see, unlike the denizens of the countries we visit, we can jump on a plane anytime and get back to the serious business of putting together an impressive collection of shiny things. Apparently the one who dies with the most wins. Don't ask me to explain why - I don't get it either.
Last edited by Aramas on Fri Feb 03, 2006 6:13 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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carlos-england
Joined: 16 Jul 2004
Posts: 165
Location: Buenos Aires - Cabalitto
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| Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2006 6:04 pm Post subject: Re: Why BA ?? Why Why Why?? |
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| Aramas wrote: |
| Carolina wrote: |
Enlighten me, please.
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You see, unlike the citizens of the countries we visit, we can jump on a plane anytime and get back to the serious business of putting together an impressive collection of shiny things. Apparently the one who dies with the most wins. |
Bang on the money with that statment, it always annoys me when
teaching expats want to have the same conditions as the locals when
it comes to 'foreginer prices' etc. We have the ability to jump back
on a plane to our countries if ever a military junta takes power, an
earthquake erupts etc.
As much as I love Argentina, I'm not going to be there forever
and as soon as I have had my fill of her I will begone. Maybe or
maybe not with a new Argentine wife and half Argentine children
but I don't think it is a permemant settlement for any of us. |
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ObaGol
Joined: 29 Nov 2005
Posts: 11
Location: Somewhere thats not here
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| Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2006 9:14 pm Post subject: |
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I want to go to the La Bombonera and watch the Boca Juniors 
Then maybe, one day have kids and make them become football stars and live off of them.  |
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csenoner
Joined: 13 Jan 2006
Posts: 15
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| Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 1:49 am Post subject: |
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| A lot of us are looking forward to geting away from the real world of america while we still are free. from age 5 to 22 we are in a nonstop routine of studying and now for the first time are free of any restrictions. this may be the only time in my life when i will be free of a job a school a wife or kids. so i have to get away now and experience a little bit of the world before I settle back down to the reality that is living in america and attempting to be economically stable. I feel that at some point i will end up back in chicago with a job and family, but its not certain. maybe i can see what else is out there first and see if i really want to be in america for the rest of my life. at the same time, the job market doesnt look too good right now unless you have hook ups or connections, so i might as well support my self in rome or BsAs or any where else, cuz with the job market and living costs i would probably be living with my father and just barely making enough to go out on the weekends. in another country i an be independent and have a great time and do a job that is tedious at times and also cna be stressfull, but it wont be anything like sellin gmortgages over the phone. thats what my friends who graduated are doing and i dont want to think about that. but when i do come back i will be at square one, and my friends might alrwady be making $100,000 a year and have a down payment on a house. |
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sheena maclean
Joined: 22 Nov 2004
Posts: 165
Location: Glasgow, Scotland-missing BsAs but loving Glasgow
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| Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 7:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Well, it's like this. We first-worlders are so decadent and disillusioned, that some of us are just sick to death of conspicuous consumerism. I know it's obscene when half the planet's population is hungry, but that's how it is. We earn enough so that we can buy a house and a new car in our early twenties, and after that it's just a never-ending procession of consumer durables - cars, SUV's, motorcycles, sailboats, jet-skis, ski boats, beachhouses, pools, hi-fis, microwaves, toaster ovens, bread makers, electric juicers, wide-screen HDTV's, skiing holidays, etc.. It's the gleaming hamster-wheel of doom. Life in the economically priveleged countries is all about the stuff that we own |
Wow! I want to live in your first world country! Cos where I'm from most people can't afford to buy their own house till they're at least in their mid thirties, let alone anything else from that laughable list of consumer durables! And unfortunately most peolpe in my 'first world' country don't have Mummy and Daddy to buy them an apartment as some kids do here. |
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carlos-england
Joined: 16 Jul 2004
Posts: 165
Location: Buenos Aires - Cabalitto
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| Posted: Sun Feb 05, 2006 4:49 pm Post subject: |
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| sheena maclean wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Well, it's like this. We first-worlders are so decadent and disillusioned, that some of us are just sick to death of conspicuous consumerism. I know it's obscene when half the planet's population is hungry, but that's how it is. We earn enough so that we can buy a house and a new car in our early twenties, and after that it's just a never-ending procession of consumer durables - cars, SUV's, motorcycles, sailboats, jet-skis, ski boats, beachhouses, pools, hi-fis, microwaves, toaster ovens, bread makers, electric juicers, wide-screen HDTV's, skiing holidays, etc.. It's the gleaming hamster-wheel of doom. Life in the economically priveleged countries is all about the stuff that we own |
Wow! I want to live in your first world country! Cos where I'm from most people can't afford to buy their own house till they're at least in their mid thirties, let alone anything else from that laughable list of consumer durables! And unfortunately most peolpe in my 'first world' country don't have Mummy and Daddy to buy them an apartment as some kids do here. |
I know where you are coming from on this one Sheena, I'm a working class man from Merseyside but I know that working class in England is 12 leagues apart from working class in Argentina.
When I first saw the piquerteros in Buenos Aires and I though 'they are my people' but then a porteno pointed out I had a good education, I can come out to Buenos Aires and teach, I could do and buy things that the average Piquertero could never do however hard they worked, even for middle class people in Argentina, a chance to teach Spanish in a foreign country is not going to happen. Middle class Argentines can't afford foreign trips abroad like the working class Englishman can. |
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Ackerley81
Joined: 20 Oct 2004
Posts: 49
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| Posted: Sun Feb 05, 2006 5:16 pm Post subject: |
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| I was thinking along the same lines as you, Sheena. Dirt bike at 11. Sports car at 18? House at 24? What??? I've got to move to Australia... |
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Aramas
Joined: 13 Feb 2004
Posts: 874
Location: Slightly left of Centre
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| Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 3:02 am Post subject: |
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| Ackerley81 wrote: |
| I was thinking along the same lines as you, Sheena. Dirt bike at 11. Sports car at 18? House at 24? What??? I've got to move to Australia... |
And that's for a working class lad who left school at fifteen. At age 11 I started working every saturday (2 am start) and six days a week of night shift during school holidays. At the time (mid '70s)I was being paid $5AUD a day. That's about $500AUD a year, but a new 75cc dirt bike only cost $350AUD at the time. At 18 I was working around 50-60 hours a week of night shift, and at 20 (or thereabouts) I was working 90 hours a week (6am-9pm 6 days) opening one service station in the morning and closing another at night.
A number of friends did similar things. One friend bought his Ferrari at around 21 and a lakefront house at 25 (I'm guessing the ages - it was while ago). He also left school at 15 and went into the family business. He was a bit of an over-achiever though. After he crippled his right arm in a ski racing accident, he went on to become the disabled world champion barefoot skier.
When I bought a house at 24 I was in IT, and most of my friends bought houses at around the same time, although those whose parents were immigrants generally had their houses given to them. A Yugoslav friend was given a new car at 18 and a house at 21. His parents both worked seven nights a week as cleaners, and had done so without a holiday for the fifteen years that they had been in Australia.
Last year I did a brief stint at demolition work. Try ten hours alternating between a jackhammer and a sledge knocking out concrete walls in 38 degrees C and 100% humidity. Still, for $1000AUD+ a week after tax it was worth it - or at least it was until an accident while removing a shopfront window severed all of the tendons in the back of my right hand. Some weekends we worked right through, putting in 16 hour shifts to meet a deadline. Most of the crew were in their early 20s, and each had a newish 4WD and their own house. Several also had boats. One of them had a block of land down the coast worth around $500kAUD. He was working to save the money to build a house on it.
A lot of people around here with no education or qualifications get into the mines. 8 days on, 8 days off, 12 hour shifts and $80k-$100kAUD a year. It's all open cut, so the work isn't too horrible.
People in developing countries are no stranger to hard work, but it doesn't pay off like it does in developed countries - usually it doesn't even pay for the basics. Of course most westerners want the money but don't want to work for it. Why do you think immigrants tend to do so well in developed countries? They work long hours at crap jobs and it pays off. Westerners that are willing to do the same can clean up.
Also, one should bear in mind that in a wealthy welfare state like Australia, with its mild climate and easy living, the worst thing that can happen to anyone is that they get stoned every day and go surfing. In fact, anyone with three or more children will have a hard time finding a job that pays better than the dole. Contrast that with watching your children starve to death. |
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sheena maclean
Joined: 22 Nov 2004
Posts: 165
Location: Glasgow, Scotland-missing BsAs but loving Glasgow
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| Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 12:19 am Post subject: |
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| At age 11 I started working every saturday (2 am start) and six days a week of night shift during school holidays. |
Isn't child labour illegal in Australia??? We're your parents ok with you working at 11 years old?? |
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boomonde
Joined: 16 Jan 2006
Posts: 14
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| Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2006 1:27 am Post subject: right on sheena |
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I agree with Sheena, yeah, no offense but I am from the USA, which is supposedly full of all these opps, and I too have been working since 14, and yet I bought my first home at....34! by myself, and I busted my ass to buy it.600 sq feet in a renovating ghetto and I was so house proud.
No offense but I dont think you speak for all of us 1st worlders, and I am not going to BA to get away from shiny thing aquisition, because I dont get into that, really. A normal, not glam home, a family and a decent retirement, so I can have the free time in the future to...volunteer, not die in a VA hospital etc. Just have a low key life. And yeah it sucks that other countries dont have that. Which is one reason I want to travel, to appreciate what we have and help others.
Also
BTW, New Orleans is in the first world too, that is where I bought my first house..... probs happen there too, right?
so for me, its not the get- behind- me -shiny -thing focus, I actually wanted to volunteer, better my Spanish, see the city I read about so much in so many Puig novels, and dance tango. In the future, just use the "I" pronoun please  |
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Stevie-G
Joined: 15 Oct 2005
Posts: 58
Location: Rosario, Argentina
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| Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2006 5:24 am Post subject: Hmmmm |
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Well I don't agree with the poster who speaks about coming to Argentina to get away from material things, and I strongly disagree with Sheena.
I am from the USA and my parents didn't buy me an apartment! I worked a government job, invested my money, built up my 401k, and semi-retired to Argentina. I think that every one with a fair amount of brains and good work ethic can achieve success in the USA!
I choose to live in Argentina because I like it here (also have family here).
It seems Sheena's posts are always negative for some reason......... |
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sheena maclean
Joined: 22 Nov 2004
Posts: 165
Location: Glasgow, Scotland-missing BsAs but loving Glasgow
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| Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2006 12:45 pm Post subject: |
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| And unfortunately most peolpe in my 'first world' country don't have Mummy and Daddy to buy them an apartment as some kids do here. |
If you read my quote correctly Stevie, you'll see that I wasn't talking about people in the US (or almost any '!st world' country). I was saying that some Argentine kids here have their parents buy apartments for them here which is not common in the part of the '1st world' I'm from or of the people I know. |
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