Job Discussion Forums

[go_lightly]

Hello ~ I am looking for insight on teaching ESL (particularly in California), but in the public school setting. To date I have a BA & vocational TESOL certificate & am currently finishing a year teaching in Taiwan. Knowing how competitive it is to teach ESL in CA, i'm planning to obtain a single-subject credential in English with an ESL emphasis, which requires a 2nd BA in Linguistics. This is the program currently offered at San Jose State University. While this would qualify me to teach English in jr. highs & HS, i am more interested in teaching ESL or language development ~ even for K-6. But so far, it seems that the closest educational program i can find to qualify me for this is getting another BA in Linguisitics w/ the single-subject credentialing. Does anyone have any insight on teaching ESL for K-12??? Is it fair to say that one can make a full career out of it? Thanks...

[chinagirl]

I can't specifically speak for California, but it is safe to say that on the east coast, there is a career to be made in the public schools with a K-12 TESOL credential. I've got my teaching license in NY. However, I'm teaching overseas at the moment and when I get back I will probably also get my elementary license, as many states only recognize the TESOL K-12 licence as an endorsement, not as a base certificate. Each state is different.

Teaching in the public schools is a much more finanancially stable career track than adult education, however, depending on where you teach it can be much more stressful! BTW, I did my K-12 TESOL certifcation in NY as part of a master's degree program.

[IreneM]

i did my student teaching in the boston puplic schools which had specific esl teachers/ classes. i have a ba in elementary edu, a tefl certificate and teaching experience... do you think i would need a masters for these positions? what about teaching older levels, like adults?

im concidering going back to school for masters, what would be the subject title for teaching esl and what is the expected pay for esl teachers in the states?

any help would be appreciated!

pura vda from costa rica,
irene

[escapeartist]

Hi -
I'm not sure, but I think you might need the MA TESOL to teach K-12 in CA. I could be wrong. There are two different tracks for people who are MA TESOL, those who want to teach in CA K-12 and those who want to teach adults (jr. colleges, etc.). You are probably aware, the K-12 has more job security, benefits, etc.

Here's the link to SJSU's program, they don't really explain it much - I think you're better off contacting the professors or school:
http://info.sjsu.edu/web-dbgen/catalog/departments/LING.html

I think there are programs at SF State, CSU East Bay, and MIIS (Monterey Institute) - if you're considering the Bay Area.

Good luck

[rusmeister]

God help you.
I left the nightmare of CA, after obtaining my credential.
You can get your foot in the door in one of many desperate schools - they will help you get an emergency credential, if things haven't changed much in the past few years. Then you can go to SJ State and enroll in their English program with "CLAD" emphasis. (That's the term for 'I can work with people from other countries')
Unfortunately, you won't learn much from them on how to teach, but will get plenty of polit. indoctrination. Watch out for their Social Foundations of Education (and Psych. Foundations of Ed) courses (required)!
You don't need a second BA or an MA (a sad sign when they make the requirements for teaching sound like brain surgery - but this is how the univs make their money and how the unions justify demands for increased salaries). You just need a BA and to at least pass their PRAXIS test in the subject field you want certification in as part of the requirements to get in the program. Just the application and requirements to get in took me the better part of a year. Then 2 years of BS classes. Sure hope you aren't an orthodox Christian or hold strong conservative views - you'd be in for a rough ride.
The schools are also in sad shape - and I found that the public machine only gives lip service to caring whether those brand newly arrived immigrant teens in high school learn enough to get out of the car wash industry. In short, you won't find a free lunch there.
God bless, wherever you go!

[JZer]

Yeah, if you go from teaching ESL abroad to inter-city schools it is black and white. Most ESL teachers are used to teaching rich kids or people who are busting their butts to learn English. In the public schools you will more than likely get a bunch of confused immigrant teens.

[Chancellor]

The school district here in Buffalo, New York (it may have been a state-wide thing, though) told all its teachers a few years back that they had four years to get their master's degree.

[rusmeister]

It is part of the general move to make the teaching profession inaccesible to ordinary people who have not gone through * or more years of brainwashing in so-called "higher education". The teacher's unions like this because it fosters the myth that you need to have as much training as a brain surgeon before you can be allowed to work with kids, which, in turn, justifies demands to continue to raise teacher salaries. (In CA the average teacher, even on an emergency credential makes an average of maybe $35,000 or more - that's not a lot in CA, but it's certainly enough to rent an apartment and pay the bills.) The point is, an ordinary person with common sense, a good old-fashioned basic education (Just read any 19th century American writer and tell me they didn't have a good basic education!) will not be allowed near children until they have been politically indoctrinated for a long time. I went through a California state program and survived because I was an older person with plenty of prior classroom experience and developed opinions. But the 23-yr-old girls in the program mostly don't have a chance. This makes mega-bucks for universities, justifies a massive administration in State Ed, billions and billions of dollars in forcing teachers to go back again and again, and most of the time you're not really being taught how to teach math better (although a lot of the "in-house trainings" proclaim that) but how to be more sensitive, and tolerant, and multi-cultural, and how to think "globally". Schools have become behavior indoctrination centers rather than places of learning.

If you've seen any at all of what I've seen, try reading John Taylor Gatto's stuff. Just Google him.

[Chancellor]

[rusmeister]

[Chancellor]

What it comes down to is the position of teachers within a society. Are they on a par with doctors, lawyers and other "professionals" as at least many of the ones in my part of the world assert? Considering that we (rightly or wrongly) entrust teachers with the responsibility of educating our children (whatever "educating" is supposed to mean these days, there does seem to be more political indoctrination and less real academic subject matter), should we not demand more from them (I'd be happy if they could read and write beyond the high school level)?

I'm not convinced that a master's degree should be a required prerequisite for teachers (except, perhaps, if they're teaching university undergraduates) but I do think we should require prospective teachers to be masters of the subjects they're teaching.

My daughter once had an English teacher who was still a college student with a C in English.

[rusmeister]

Your questions are core questions. Here's mine (to help in answering them):
Is the purpose of the schools to make teachers feel good or ensure a well-paid workforce of teachers?

Who should decide the 'requirements' for a teacher? People who really care about the children? Who really cares about your children?

Did you take a look at those links?

[Chancellor]

[rusmeister]

What those links are to is his more recent research of the history of public education in America. It provides answers to some of your earlier questions and comments.

Not to go with just one man's info/exp., try John Stormer's recent work "None Dare Call It Education". Also on target. His slant's a little more Evangelical, and was written/published in 1999 (so busts on education excesses of the Clinton admin) but the info is otherwise good and worth reading.

It's really hard for anyone to see all this without going through a State teacher program and seeing the indoctrination and lack of practical preparation there, working in a public school (preferably high school - that's where the fruits are most clearly seen) for a few years and seeing not only the results in the children but the systematic sabotage (staff meetings, etc) from the district, county and state, and then leave (so that you don't have a special incentive to shut your ears to the conclusions that thoughts like Gatto's will eventually lead you to - if the system is your bread and butter, you aren't going to want to talk about dismantling it and rebuilding from scratch no matter what it's doing to kids).

The trouble is getting anyone to listen. Teachers and admin don't want to hear it. Even though they know the system's messed up, it IS their bread and butter, so they'll only talk about reform. But they've been "reforming" it for 40 years!
Parents don't want to hear it. They need a babysitter, even if their kids aren't learning a thing except how to access the sex scenes in Grand Theft Auto from their friends. (This leads into why a consumer-driven economy wants both parents to "go to work" - as opposed to an agricultural/small-scale enterpreneurial one where a parent raises the children rather than the state)

So any info you read or present to others has to take into account not only the student experience, but the teacher experience - from the prep program to the classroom to the staff meetings - as well, which is why Gatto's work is so convincing. I was there; he was there, too. Finally, how did this monster system come about? The history of education. Definitely take a look at the links. The stuff is free and online.

[pollitatica]

I know that in PA, you need your teaching cert and your ESL specialist certificate to teach in public schools. of course, a Masters is helpful, but it's not necessarily REQUIRED.