Job Discussion Forums

[fitzpatrick_thomas]

Looking at the Yahoo.com page on the net today, I found that a new survey claims Moscow is the most expensive city in the world. Say what you want about surveys but I think that there must be some truth in it.

I see the dollar is going down against the rouble and that inflation is going up.
This must all be very hard on TEFL teachers in Moscow - worse if they are paid in dollars.
Any comments ?

[naturegirl321]

What is the average salary in Russia? And what kind of benefits are usually given by language schools?

[canucktechie]

These are cost of living surveys for expat business executives. They include private schools, private medical care (both very expensive in Moscow), luxury housing (ditto), boutique shopping, etc, etc.

This lifestyle has as much in common with the average Moscow resident's (and with EFL teachers') as Bill Gates' has with you and me.

I have lived in both London and Moscow and can tell you that Moscow is not remotely as expensive as London. In fact, it's cheaper than North American big cities, with the exception of housing in some cases.

[maruss]

This survey represents executives life-styles and therefore the figures are mis-leading so I would agree with the last posting on that point..BUT I can also assure anyone who doesn't know Moscow that the quality of life there is very poor compared to western cities,unless you are earning a decent salary and can afford to live well.
I am saying this from personal experience between October last year and April this year.Forget the weather as it's not fair to blame the place for that-it's just that the environment and so many other things are bad there.
The novelty of the history and culture soon wears off!

[kazachka]

Agreed- the survey is based on an expat executive lifestyle. Ok, fine, if you live in your million dollar cottage out the Rublevka in your gated community with 6 BMWs and a Mercedes or 2 then YES it gets EXPENNNNSIVE! However, if you live like a mainstream middle class type, it's not that bad. On AVERAGE it costs me a little over 1000$ (sometimes as much as 1500)LESS a month to live here than it did when I lived in Alaska. Now, when prices here catch up to or exceed that, then it's time to consider heading back to my igloo. This question comes up all the time about cost of living here and the answer is the same:it depends on how you choose to live.

[spiral78]

I feel a bit bad for maruss, being in Moscow October - April. I arrived in March this year, and March/April end of winter was really dismal. But May......180 degrees different feeling. The contrasts were amazing - and I think I could say that about Moscow overall, based on my admittedly short ten weeks there. It applies to architecture and society and culture and etc. I think if I'd left in April, I'd never want to return, but I am actually hoping for another project in the fall. I'd be quite sad to think I would never return.

[GF]

Hey Maruss. Why did you leave Moscow? Are you planning to go back? It is too bad you aren't there now because you are missing the best time of year to be there. When I worked there, I couldn't wait for summer each year. It was sort of like waiting for Christmas and it made the winters that much more bearable.

[maruss]

This is a very good question and in my case a rather complicated one, due also to personal and family circumstances etc.Whilst I cannot deny that it is an interesting place and is certainly worth seeing and experiencing for a while,I cannot honestly imagine how anyone who has lived in a decent place in the west could contemplate staying there long-term, unless possibly they were earning really serious money with ex-pat executive benefits etc.In my case,I had already been there a lot of times before on short visits, had a few very good Russian friends and also a working knowledge of the language-and the last two advantages are definitely worth having,as I am sure everyone will agree!
Maybe I'm spoilt after living on a Mediterranean island since 1979 and also,at 53 next week am getting 'over the hill' for an adventurous life in big cities etc but I still assert that Moscow and Russia generally, is not an ideal place to find a good-quality life and many people there, both local and foreigners told me this, and for many different reasons, so they can't all be wrong!O.K. the weather is crap for a large part of the year and we all know that anyway so this is not my point!I agree it's almost magical by contrast at this time of year compared to winter/spring but the grime and stress and the sheer overcrowding caused by millions of people trying to make a living in the capital of the worlds largest country where most of the other areas are in decline hardly makes for a pleasant environment.As one English fomer colleague who is still over there said when he rang me the other day, you just somehow accept it because you become accustomed to things, but that doesn't mean the place is o.k.!He's lived all over the world,including places like Mexico as well as Ukraine and rates Moscow as low on the scales for life quality etc.
Remember this is without even mentioning the high cost of living, especially accomodation, corruption, bureaucracy and third-world level inequality between the tiny mega-rich elite, small middle-class and the rest of the population packed into the soulless and miserable suburbs and satellite towns who are struggling to and fro on the overcrowded metro and buses each day to make ends meet on a few hundred dollars a month!
Hoping I don't sound too cynical, but I think this is the reality!
If you want to discover more truths, try visiting one of the smaller towns outside Moscow and see how conditions are there .I used to go to an orphanage at weekends to visit the kids and clear snow from their playground etc.Despite all the other drawbacks of Russia, seeing their happy faces when I turned up made all the other bad things about the country seem unimportant and they are probably what I miss most about the place!

[spiral78]

Maruss, fair enough. I must say that, while I'm happy to have project work in Moscow, I agree that the sheer overcrowding would get me down long-term.

[canucktechie]

Moscow is really 2 cities: a fairly small imitation 1st world city, which is expensive by 1st world standards, surrounded by a huge 3rd world city, which is expensive by 3rd world standards. So it's not a good bargain regardless of which one you live in, even though the 3rd world part is not expensive compared to the West.

Compare with a place like Seoul, South Korea, which has about the same liveability, but where the cost of living is lower and EFL teachers make about 3x what they do in Moscow.

[rusmeister]

Agree with Canucktechie.
The Moscow region has to a great extent caught up to 3rd world Moscow and there can be advantages over Moscow - like you're not in a big city. But salaries aren't keeping pace with cost of living, which has clearly doubled out here in the last few years.

The trouble with Seoul is that, for those that have "russified", it just ain't Russia!

[maruss]

I'm teaching some european student groups here with E.F. in Cyprus during July and we have a small party of about 15 Russian teenagers among them from both St.Petes and Moscow.One of them made virtually the same point about Russia as the last few postings did-i.e. a few lucky Muscovites living in the 1st world centre, surrounded by a lot of far less lucky ones living outside them in a very large 3rd world city!The big question is where is the 2nd world area for those in the middle who have the means to live above the lower ones but cannot even dream of reaching the first level?Their overall opinion about Russia is that the bad things about their country, especially corruption and cynicism are so deep-rooted that they cannot see how it can change in the forseeable future because the fact is that those who benefit from the situation will never change something which they thrive on!Their only remedy for survival there is to shut-up and put-up-or leave if it gets to you too much, AND of course, you have the means to like us ex-pats!And they all told me that I cannot appreciate how lucky we are to have that choice!
By the way does anyone know what E.F. in Moscow are like to work for on an hourly basis, especially teaching business level ?I was offered an quite attractive rate by them just before I left Russia in early April and the fact that the lessons are apparently mostly held at their head office which is right in the centre seemed a definite advantage, rather than you having to travel all over the place to teach in-company as most other firms require??
(PS. forget working on contract for them as the terms are grim!)

[rusmeister]

EF offering an attractive rate?? (snort!)
Must be under the table. Could be a sign that they're desperate.
Wouldn't rush back from Cyprus for it.
Good luck!

[maruss]

I have also heard from several other people, both in Russia and in England that although this firm is very big and known internationally via their attractive corporate logos etc. that they are 'crap' to work for and their course books reflect this as well!I guess the same goes for B.K.C. which is linked with International House-big but definitely not beautiful!!
I wonder what Berlitz will be like when they open in Moscow?
Comparing Moscow to Cyprus for life-quality is like the difference between somewhere like Fiji and Somalia!!

[kazachka]

Forget EF. I have a friend who got a lousy 12 bucks/acad.hr to go all the way up past Khimki! They posted about a yr ago looking for a person out in Reutov. I was curious since I have a place to stay walking distance from that school. For 90 min it was 400 rub! Forget it! To my knowledge, they never got a native speaker for that school. Personally, I think you should get a little more for going across MKAD as it adds to commute time. Plus, a former coworker was invited by them on contract when he initally came over and they later screwed him. He was sometimes not paid on time and they NEVER gave him housing that was SUPPOSED to be in the contract.