Job Discussion Forums

[RedRoof]

I[color=green] am a "mature aged", experienced, registered teacher with degrees in a variety of disciplines plus TESOL qualifications and experience. I have always been a teachers' union rep. throughout my professional career and you can be assured I am no mouth piece / apologist for administration or a "company line". I have just completed nine weeks of my 3 month summer contract with Apollo Hanoi.

I'm appalled at the comments re Apollo Hanoi and its academic leadership I've read on this forum. My experience is VERY different.

The summer contract / conditions plus ALL other questions I asked about life in Hanoi were answered very promptly by the ADOS and with a touch of humour evident in her replies. If anyone asked a lot of questions, you can believe - IT WAS ME!

The contract as presented for signing DID vary from the original supplied and again I questioned the variations. I was assured by the ADOS that the conditions she had outlined would be those applying for the Summer School contract, that management's contract contained provisions they thought were needed. I was prepared to accept her assurance and my judgment on her professional and personal integrity has been TOTALLY validated.

Since taking up employment here I could provide a very long list of examples of exemplary professional and personal deportment and practice by both ADOS and DOS that I've seen first hand. For the sake of readers' patiences, I'll restrict myself to a few telling examples.

Two of us undertook to produce / direct the "Summer Gala" plays after being offered that three hours weekly as part of our teaching load assignment. On arrival, I found someone in management had apparently had a second thought and now considered it to be a duty that could be classified as "administrative" (ie half teaching pay rate ) rather than teaching. Predictably, I instantly advised DOS and ADOS that I was no longer interested in the activity under those conditions. Not only was there no recrimination, DOS and ADOS took up the issue on our behalf and the original deal was reinstated VERY promptly.

As Summer contract teachers, we have our hotel accommodation covered in the deal. Nine of us were divided between two hotels which were quaintly Vietnamese and of a very acceptable standard of cleanliness, facilities etc - except for one small detail. No room had a window. As soon as this was reported (Saturday - day after our arrival) ADOS was on the ball negotiating with the hotels. Inability of one hotel to provide rooms with windows resulted in relocation of that group to a different hotel in one day! Not the work of an uncaring administrator.

The ADOS has actively interceded to ensure our group is paid in cash to avoid the wait if we had attempted to establish a bank account and pay in a cheque. Again, she has been actively working on resolution of the problems of teachers' receiving a final payment of a month's salary plus the balance $500 US air fare refund in VND on the last day of contract. And no, in this country you DO NOT just go to the nearest bank and exchange for the currency of your choosing. First find a gold dealer..... etc) These are not the actions of an uncaring / mean / nasty / whatever administrator.

Two of our "summer group" apparently did receive a contract with a finish date of 14/8 (a Monday) rather than the actual 18/8 (Friday) but this would seem to be potentially a typo - albeit an unfortunate one. They also apparently saw an earlier eslcafe ad giving a higher salary than the one seen by the remainder of us. But the quantum on contracts presented for signature has not deviated. Those teachers have expre

Class size issues of course impact on our function and stress levels here as elsewhere. Again DOS and ADOS have been holding the line on this in the face of company desire to"extend" the upper limit, surely a very realisitc support of teachers.

Issues with classrooms, Teaching Assistants, resources, student behaviour are all handled by both DOS and ADOS in a thoroughly competent and timely manner.[/color]

Of particular concern to me is the oblique reference to "partner" in one of the posts. This I construe as a calculated attempt to evoke prejudice (whether for a real or imagined relationship for which there is no direct evidence) and contaminate professional issues with bias and innuendo.

There's a lot more . . . .

Watch this space.

RedRoof
Happy to work with the DOS and ADOS of Apollo, Hanoi.

[color=red]THIS WAS NOT A PAID POLITICAL ANNOUNCMENT.[/color]

[RedRoof]

Posted: Sat Jul 22, 2006 3:40 am Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
QUOTE from the LOCKED thread on the topic of Apollo is below:

I know I'm in danger of starting a sniping match with these comments, but may I point out that the clumsiness of construction and English in this communication suggests someone having something more than difficulty with a keyboard.

This person is applying for a job teaching English. I would suspect a volume of emails incorporating this sort of difficulty with the written language would make any DOS think twice about the appointment.

Facility and fluency in the language to be taught is a highly desirable attribute for a teacher, surely?


RedRoof

[quote="Snaff"][quote="norbdemn"]

I was revoked a job offer with Apollo.At the time I was completing my term in northern Thailand. I got offered a job with Apollo/hanoi. Upon getting a job offer through email, I remained corresponding with the person ( a british lady) that hired me (I wanted to confirm the terms of the contract, teaching hours, medical ........etc.. legitimate stuff). About a week later I emailed the person that offered me the job to confirm I will take the job. Then all of a sudden I received an email from her explaining that they decided to revoke my job offer because I asked them too many questions and thought that I would pose a problem if they hired me!

Obviously I was dissappointed since I was just about to make flight arrangements (lucky I didnt). Anyway, I sent her a reply explaining that they were legitmate questions I asked and felt it was absurd that they revoked my job offer solely for that reason! They never replied.
[/quote]

[Blade]

Redroof, you are entitled to your opinion.

But from the people I've spoken with personally and what I have read on this and the other forums, the ratio of teachers that are unhappy is a lot higher than the ratio of teachers that are happy.

Right now I think the ratio is about 18:1

Because you have just registered and have written so much in support of this organization. We do wonder if there is any ulterior motive.

MOD EDIT

[Tue]

It looks like Apollo is trying to get someone to help limit the damage.

I am glad that you seemed to enjoy at Apollo, and truthfully there are some good points working for this company. They do pay on time and there is always hours available (they are always losing teachers, that's why)

[RedRoof]

Blade

Thank you for asking my motivation - an important question. The answer is simple - my professional (and personal) ethical responsibility to speak out when I believe an injustice is being perpetrated. I'm an "old leftie" from the Vietnam war era, university reform groups and civil disobedience movements with a long record of union activism. I have never been afraid to speak out on issues I see as important.

I hold dear the principle that we are all entitled to our opinions and the reasonable promulgation of them. I also believe we can do inestimable personal and professional damage to others with one-sided criticisms that do not reflect the total picture. This is particularly true in an era where our (anonymous) criticisms spread instantly around the world via websites rather than being contained in a staff lounge. . . . or the local refreshment establishment! (BTW: May I invite you to reflect for a moment on the future employability of teachers if they were identified / named on this site such by administrators / employers and their conduct / skills / professionality / motivation denigrated at will for the world's audience of potential employers?)

I have, to date tried only to present MY FIRST HAND EXPERIENCE with the DOS and ADOS. I am not reporting second hand . . . . and I have been teaching for a very long time in a wide range of facilities and roles which I feel give me a background and balance to evaluate critically.

I can assure you I'd no prior relationship or meeting with DOS or ADOS before taking up the position AND I'm not on a retainer or other inducement to "defend" them. I have enjoyed working WITH them and I feel they are being treated unfairly, hence my postings.

I can say that there have been a number of very abrupt departures of teaching staff which have created a number of problems - for colleagues left to pick up their erst-while responsibilities and for the administrators faced with conjuring up teaching cover at incredibly short notice. Native English speaking teachers free to take a class on a half hour's notice are NOT particularly in abundant supply.

I have only second hand information re motivation / causes of the "midnight flits" and short notice resignations. Casual conversations suggest the pay rates on offer at Apollo are not as generous as those at other facilities so it's inevitable that teachers will move on, wanting to be recompensed for their efforts at the best rate available. We're human and living costs money. Appropriate notice would, however, be a professional way of conduct.

At a staff meeting, the DOS presented a summary of staff departures, reported reasons and the status quo on contractual obligations of those teachers in order to reduce the level of innuendo and rumour. Staff members who believed that a departed friend's case required a better / corrected explanation presented their information and were given time to do so.

In terms of Apollo's management, they have had a policy of covering the 15% tax gap between the 25% rate for the first six months of employment and the 10% thereafter rate. This was presumably done to make the salary more palatable to teachers during that six months. If teachers quit within the six month period, I would imagine they do need to recover this "gap" amount.

This is probably enough for one post, n'est-ce pas?

RedRoof

As a relative "newbie" to this site, I'm unsure why the "Apollo Warning" thread has been locked. Any enlightenment, please?

[RedRoof]

Tue

I have had NO CONTACT or CONVERSATION with anyone at Apollo in management or academic administration regarding my views or anything I've posted. Please refrain from trying to reduce the impact of my experience and opinions by suggesting they are motivated by anything other than my own ethics or that I am some sort of mindless stooge. Enlarge your world view to accommodate the concept that there will generally be more than one point of view.

And be assured I am a "Summer Teacher". Think about my "Nom de Computer" for a moment and you should work out which one I am.

You ask can I shed some light on departures of 2 corporate DOS people?

Given that one was before my time and totally unknown to me, I have NO FIRST HAND INFORMATION and I'm not going to repeat scuttlebutt.

The second person is known to me and I am aware that he left for a position as principal in another country. My conversation with him revealed we'd both had prior and very positive experience teaching refugees from that country and it was clear to me that we both would welcome the chance to work with them again. The time line between his taking up duty and giving notice was so extremely short that it would seem evident he would have applied for that position prior to taking up his Apollo post and that an offer of employment must have been made after his arrival at Apollo. To his credit, he gave notice and, as far as I am aware, he worked professionally to the day of departure.

The contract I was given by Apollo had a provision for a two week period in which either party could terminate the contract. So, his departure may be regrettable and disruptive, but presumably within the spirit of the contract conditions promulgated by Apollo.

Red Roof

[Tue]

Red, I am glad that you have enjoyed your time at this school. There is still a few teacher who are left that are quite happy and content, best of luck to them.

[Joe Dolce]

As an ex Apollo teacher I can only say that it seems like their attitude towards teachers has come back to bite them. When I was there, if a contract teacher finished a class and there were no new classes opening, a part timer would be pulled from his or her class and the contract teacher would replace them.

To save a few dollars, Apollo were quite happy to cause problems for students who usually hate teacher changes, the contract teacher who would have to take over a class that didn't want a teacher change, and the part timer who was suddenly left with less income.

Redroof, you are a new member and new to Vietnam. Are you aware of Apollo's history? Do you know how many DOS's ADOS's they get through in an average year? Have you noticed how few of your colleagues are long term stayers? Apollo has its good point but it isn't the fantastic place you claim it is. It's having problems at this time of year because it's the high season and there are several better schools in need of teachers.

How many Apollo teachers have worked at ACET, Language Link, RMIT, The British Council, Australian Development Scholarships (ADS), HIS (So called international school that doesn't require high school teaching diploma)? Maybe one of two, but Apollo has become a stepping stone to better things rather than a top notch employer. There's more money and more support to be had elsewhere, which is why people leave.

If you are only planning to stay in Hanoi for a short time as you with your short term contract are, Apollo may be a good place to work. Anyone planning a long stay in Hanoi will find Apollo a decent employer at first, but find several better options open to them.









Khalid

[norbdemn]

[quote="RedRoof"]Posted: Sat Jul 22, 2006 3:40 am Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
QUOTE from the LOCKED thread on the topic of Apollo is below:

I know I'm in danger of starting a sniping match with these comments, but may I point out that the clumsiness of construction and English in this communication suggests someone having something more than difficulty with a keyboard.

This person is applying for a job teaching English. I would suspect a volume of emails incorporating this sort of difficulty with the written language would make any DOS think twice about the appointment.

Facility and fluency in the language to be taught is a highly desirable attribute for a teacher, surely?


RedRoof

[quote="Snaff"][quote="norbdemn"]

I was revoked a job offer with Apollo.At the time I was completing my term in northern Thailand. I got offered a job with Apollo/hanoi. Upon getting a job offer through email, I remained corresponding with the person ( a british lady) that hired me (I wanted to confirm the terms of the contract, teaching hours, medical ........etc.. legitimate stuff). About a week later I emailed the person that offered me the job to confirm I will take the job. Then all of a sudden I received an email from her explaining that they decided to revoke my job offer because I asked them too many questions and thought that I would pose a problem if they hired me!

Obviously I was dissappointed since I was just about to make flight arrangements (lucky I didnt). Anyway, I sent her a reply explaining that they were legitmate questions I asked and felt it was absurd that they revoked my job offer solely for that reason! They never replied.
[/quote][/quote]

RedRoof:

I am just stating the facts. Also, you taking a shot at my English proficiency means that you are clearly compensating for something (lack of teachers working at your school?.......a wild guess.). I bet you talk to other teachers in that same tone. This gives me the impression that I am better off not working there anyway.

How much is Apollo paying you to be their bi@ch?

[Tue]

Points to ponder.

norbdemn's post on the Apollo warning thread only serves to show what is really happening there. The main reason for most of the people (including me) leaving Apollo in the last couple months, is the Ados and Dos. period. This is fact straight from the people who have left including the last 2 corprate dos's.

Now how come a guy living in another country, teaching at another school, is able to identify them by their unprofessional and inflexible manner ?? Could it be because it is true ? These 2 are well know for their inflexibly and their vindictiveness when questioned and this has been the main source of teachers leaving at Apollo.

I have always advocated asking alot of questions before accepting a contract. This does 2 things 1. lets you know the specific of the position (hours, schedule, pay, etc..) and 2. the manner in how the emails are answered (detailed or vague, prompt replies) also gives a good indication of the management style. Any school that tells a prospective teacher they look like trouble because they are asking relevant questions is a joke plain and simple.

Also, I find it interesting why a "teacher" on a 3 month contract is so vigorously defending a school with a negative reputation in Hanoi ?

[TimkinMS]

[RedRoof]

I'm definitely a "one off" but as a long term career teacher I have a commitment to and an investment in my profession and support for colleagues and fair play.

If we are considering "odd", as ESL (or potential ESL) teachers, try evaluating the English grammar and spelling of those posting and ask again about "odd".

Let's try to keep this to first hand experience and NOT "reports" and "he said / she said stuff.

RedRoof

[Tue]

[norbdemn]

[quote]
[color=blue]It seems that this post topic is about a school and its problems, not a spelling and grammar lesson. It seems a funny retort on your part given the recent replies to your OP.

Your wordy and over-the-top replies are not devoid spelling or grammatical errors....this is a public forum, not a University-grade publication. Maybe you should have one of your "teachers" write the next advert for the school. :D [/color][/quote]

I agree. :D

[Joe Dolce]

Well said Tue. Why start a thread in defense of a school and then go off at tangents? I guess Redroof was expecting more posts supporting his point of view.

The Hanoi ESL community is small and close. It's hard to get away from the he said she said stuff. You learn to take it all with a pinch of salt unless that is almost everyone is saying the same thing which in this case they are.