Job Discussion Forums

peder · Joined: 30 Jan 2003 Posts: 45

I am an american with and american passport and I have been in italy now for 2 1/2 weeks. Before I came here I was a bit worried becauseeverything I read about the difficulty finding jobs ect. for americans. Well I found work at two different schools two days after arriving. I have a celta and a year of experience. It wasnt a problem to find a shared apartment but make sure you have enough money for the deposit (2-3 months rent). Another reason I was reluctant was becuase people on this forum always complain about the lack of money. I am averaging 16 euros an hour. I am working about 18 hours a week, this is plenty of money. As for the visa situation, I dont have one and I have talked to some americans who have been teaching here for a few years, go back home every summer and still dont have a problem without a work permit ect. So I guess my point is that if you are an american and want to come to italy, just come here and you should find it much easier than most people on this forum tend to describe it. I dont know if Im the exception, and I realise that I havent been here for very long but so far it seems that things couldnt be easier.
good luck.

spiral78 · Joined: 05 Apr 2004 Posts: 11534 Location: On a Short Leash

People on this forum do NOT say that jobs are hard to find.

We say that a LEGAL WORK PERMIT is essentially impossible to get.

If you are the type to work ILLEGALLY, there is work.

There are risks.

1. any health insurance may not cover you if it is found that you are working/living illegally - this is a loophole. You would always receive any needed emergency care, but you are also always liable for the bills after.

2. Working illegally means that you will not have financial stability. Non-contract staff are the first to be laid off if business slows down. You will be finanically insecure - you may make plenty, or you may have bad luck.

3. It may be rare, but there is always the chance of legal problems. Simply being in the wrong place at the wrong time can have much bigger consequences than if you are living/working legally somewhere else.

4. Working illegally does not necessarily reflect well on your resume later on. Some employers may be ignorant enough not to question your work experience ( "Oh, you were in Italy, cool") but while this may be ok at MacDonalds or Starbucks, if you're going for professional jobs there is a risk that someone in the hiring staff will be savvy enough to ask you how you were able to work/live in the EU - and it's not going to reflect well if you breezily say that you were technically illegal.....

SueH · Joined: 01 Feb 2003 Posts: 1022 Location: Northern Italy

Are they deducting the tax for you? 16 nett is good, but if they are not deducting tax remember that you have a tax liability, which can be another source of aggravation.

viovio · Joined: 20 Oct 2006 Posts: 63 Location: Chile

Here in Chile I've been working for many years totally legal and I do not have health insurance or any job security.
I finding a job as EFL teacher is so easy, do you think you find something for me? Laughing

richs23 · Joined: 10 Aug 2006 Posts: 6 Location: Cornwall, England

averaging 16 euros an hour staright away??? I teach in italy and that sounds unbelievable!

Jetgirly · Joined: 17 Jul 2004 Posts: 741

Underneath my apartment there was a pharmacy. Their alarm system broke and would start ringing every morning at 6:00 am and continue for hours. It was so loud that people two streets over could hear it. After three or four days my roommates and I called the police. The police didn't do anything to stop the alarm, but they did thourougly analyze all of my immigration paperwork (permesso di soggiorno [for the purpose of work... which was obtained only with proof of my LEGAL employment] and my residenzia or whatever it's called). You never know when someone will check your papers!

OzBurn · Joined: 03 May 2004 Posts: 199

If you aren't American, or maybe I should just say if you are British, you can't possibly understand. Or at least that's the feeling I get when I read some of the replies.

1) We don't expect to get medical insurance from the government. We don't have it in the U.S., and we don't expect it anywhere else. (Yeah, yeah, I know -- you love your National Health and your 50 percent marginal tax rate, too. Don't bother, I've heard it all. Fill me in, by the way, when the English come up with a medical innovation. Now that will be front page news.)
2) We don't get our panties in a twist because someone, somewhere might ask to see our papers.
3) Like the Italians, we tend to think that where there's a will, there's a way.
4) The idea that we should not take a job in a country we love because someone, somewhere, sometime might disapprove of us working without the "proper" papers is too ridiculous even to discuss.

All you "legitimate" Brits with your 11 euro an hour jobs at IH make me laugh. Brits post so many deceptive things on these lists trying to discourage Americans, Aussies, Kiwis, South Africans and indeed anyone but Brits from working in Europe. And then you see so many terrible Brit teachers, bitter, incompetent old soaks who hate teaching, holding forth in various watering holes around the world about their hatred of students and hatred of intellect and of course hatred of Yanks. It's pathetic. And to think I used to love England, or my idea of it. Sad, what you guys have done to a once-great country. (I still think your over-70 generation of men is terrific, however.)

I would hold my tongue except that there is never a post from a Brit encouraging non-Brits to work in Europe. It's all wind and discouragement. I just wish I hadn't believed all their crap, as I once did -- the essence of it being that Italy, Spain and the rest of Europe are as bureaucratically stifling as the UK.

Thanks to the OP for breaking in with a bit of reality.

OzBurn

spiral78 · Joined: 05 Apr 2004 Posts: 11534 Location: On a Short Leash

If your idea of TEFL is to have a blast in a gap year or two, working illegally can work for you.

If you consider TEFL a long-term, professional career, working in a country where you can't get legal papers doesn't work.

SueH · Joined: 01 Feb 2003 Posts: 1022 Location: Northern Italy

Dear Ozburn,

It's called triage. Most of us know or have American, Aussie etc colleagues, local ski instructors, business people etc etc. We know the adaptable people who really want to do it will do it anyway. Hopefully the naive dreamers who really haven't a clue will be completely put off. The ones in the middle need to know the realistic odds. Plus there is always the sheer annoyance that they are asking the self same question time and time again (and don't use search facilities). Most posters asked specific or detailed questions are very helpful.

And why exactly should people be encouraged who will drag the wage down to �11, (although my last contract was 32 gross)? And if you think Italian (or French or German) bureaucracy is less than British - well, that just made me laugh.

What about the question of reciprocity: put it this way; it is far more likely to find an American teaching EFL in Europe (even the UK) than the reverse in the US. I suppose I could always go and get a job building the US/Mexican Wall, but the lack of affordable medical care and exploitation to dwarf even TEFLdom rather put me off.

bejarano · Joined: 12 Sep 2006 Posts: 67 Location: South Korea

Jetgirly · Joined: 17 Jul 2004 Posts: 741

SueH · Joined: 01 Feb 2003 Posts: 1022 Location: Northern Italy

If any of you haven't heard Tom Russell's song "Who's gonna build your wall" it sums up some of the situation referred to above much better than we can. Worth checking out..

OzBurn · Joined: 03 May 2004 Posts: 199

[quote="SueH"]Dear Ozburn,

>And why exactly should people be encouraged who will drag the wage down to �11, (although my last contract was 32 gross)? And if you think Italian (or French or German) bureaucracy is less than British - well, that just made me laugh.

Ah, that's just it: People lie on these boards because they fear a tidal wave of wage-lowering competition. (Thanks for the real figure on wages, by the way.) But lies are lies.

As far as bureaucracy is concerned, no doubt the Mediterranean countries' bureaucracies are huge, but the general attitude of the people is that bureaucracy is something to be avoided, not kowtowed to.

With regard to the difficulty of working in the US without what Brits call "the proper papers" (cf. "the proper qualifications," which invariably means that idiotic CELTA course they've come up with), tell it to the ten million or so illegals here. Your press may love to talk about our redneck minority, but every country has 'em. We get about a million immigrants a year; and what's more, they overwhelmingly become part of the country instead of becoming a Euro-style permanent minority of outcasts.

By the way, how are the Euro-riots going? Any plans to deal with that soon?

Hint: Your medical care isn't "free." You pay for it with taxes. Look into it, you'll see I'm right. And, because I do pay for it (or, rather, my employer does), I can go to any doctor I want, and I don't have to wait until the government gives me permission to get services. You might prefer to trade in your freedom for high taxes, free dentures and a place in the queue. (Not that you've got a choice.) I'll pass. I'm no good at queuing, and I'm really bad at putting up with crap from doctors who don't answer to me but rather to the NHS. I experienced socialist medicine in Europe. Never again.

Wages? I teach English in the U.S. Make about $50,000/year with three months vacation. I'll retire with about $30-40,000 per annum (and that's low because I started late -- hard to explain; my brother, a teacher, is retiring on about $80,000 a year in 2009.) How are you guys doing?

bejarano · Joined: 12 Sep 2006 Posts: 67 Location: South Korea

[quote="OzBurn"]

spiral78 · Joined: 05 Apr 2004 Posts: 11534 Location: On a Short Leash

I think SueH will probably agree - there's little use in arguing with people like OzBurn. Obviously, anyone living and working illegally in a country has a vested interest in defending the morality of doing so.

In my mind, people from poor and/or dangerous countries can make a stronger argument for working illegally.

The basic argument for North Americans (and Aussies) working illegally within the EU is really just 'Because We WANT To!!"

I'll repeat - if you are in the business for a year or two, basically to have fun - working illegally can be an option, assuming that you are willing to take the risks.

Professionals don't do it.