Job Discussion Forums

[vtchica]

Hey again,

I would really appreciate if someone could please either tell me what exactly are the consequences for an illegal worker in Spain upon discovery or direct me to a resource where I could find out these answers. Are there any Americans on this message board that have been "busted" by the Spanish authorities? Basically, I am asking how much is the fine and does the deportation stay on your permanent record (i.e. make it difficult for you to travel in other parts of the world)?

I would appreciate any help I can get! Thank you for your time. I am, however, looking for answers and advice, not lectures.

Thanks

[spiral78]

The reason the answers to your original post are not on point is that the penalties can range from NONE (never got caught) to SERIOUS (rare). The individual case and the officials who deal with it basically determine how serious the penalty applied may be.
It's the general case in application of laws in many places - when the laws apply to a situation where no physical harm is done to anyone/anything.

You should try (if you haven't yet) going to the Spanish Embassy website (the U.S. one will offer English) and look for the penalties - or someone official to ask.

[DainaJ]

Go over to The Expatriate Cafe forum (specific to Spain) at http://www.expatriatecafe.com/ and read up on the immigration/visa board there.

There was someone there who overstayed her visa in Spain, but as I recall didn't have problems until she left to visit the UK, whereupon her passport was taken and a large black X placed on it, and she was told she would have trouble getting back into the UK. They told her she would be deported when she went back to Spain, but through a fluke she was able to get in. Don't know what happened after that.

[Helen Frubeck]

Hi Vtchica,

I'm American and I teach English in Spain. I've been here a few years now.

In answer to your question, I've never heard of anyone (TEFL teacher that is) being deported, seriously harassed, thrown in jail, forcibly repatriated etc. for overstaying a visa. The ONLY thing I ever heard was from a friend of mine from Texas. He got asked when he left Spain (10 months overdue on his entry stamp) what he'd been doing and if he'd been working. His answer was travelling and no he hadn't been working. He passed immigration with no problems.

I've been in and out of Spain many times, including to the UK and never been hassled. The post by the woman with the overstayed visa problem in the forum that Daina mentions was made in January 2005 (almost 2 years ago). Her bad experience was in Britain not in Spain. I had a quick check to see if she ever made it back to Spain. She made another post one year later in January 2006. She answers an inquiry from someone interested in living in Valencia. She states that she's still living in Valencia. That's a year after the incident.

Just shows you how serious the authorities are in Spain. So much for the black X, thrown in jail, hung from the nearest lamp post (LOL)

Hey Moore I remember you being really negative about us Americans working in Spain, always reminding us of the ILLEGALITY of us working here, how we don't contribute to the tax system, etc, etc, and how you were telling us that we'd get arrested on the spot , etc, etc, if we tried teaching in Spain.

Moore, for financial reasons maybe you have gone quiet on this issue. You don't go into your illegal American teacher bashing because you now run or are part of a business sending out resumes. You have after all gone on the forum telling us about this service.

A couple of friends of mine (Americans) used it and they paid 10 Euros for this service. It doesn't say "EU ONLY" anywhere on your website and my friends didn't get anything saying that you couldn't send out their resumes because they were Americans.

All they had to do was give their 10 bucks and you're their friend happy to get their resume sent out for jobs you used to try and stop them from going for. Hmmm .... a bit of double standards here Moore.

After living and working here for a while and seeing how things work, I take most of the stuff I read on here about being ILLEGAL with a pinch of salt. Unless you're a criminalal or just plain dumb, nothing is going to happen.

Look at these old threads, pretty good exchange of views between Americans, other non EU citizens, EU citizens who are pretty cool about the whole thing and EU citizens who go ranting about the illegality of it all.



Very, very interesting exchanges out there ....



http://www.eslcafe.com/forums/job/viewtopic.php?t=41447

http://www.eslcafe.com/forums/job/viewtopic.php?t=23077

http://www.eslcafe.com/forums/job/viewtopic.php?t=35757



Good luck vtchica and for what it's worth, Madrid is defintely worth a try, great city. I just love it.


Helen

[Moore]

Helen: how on earth do you know what my views are and why I have stopped bothering to comment on illegal workers and why? As far as I know I have never met you, and yet you feel free to tell people what I think and why. This is a small enough city for you to meet me easily for yourself and ask me what my views are rather than assuming you know them and somehow think have the right to broadcast this rubbish.

After banging my head against the wall for ages getting upset about illegal workers in Madrid, I simply gave up and accepted it. A couple of American girlfriends, a couple of American flatmates, and a couple of my very closest friends also came into it too. I realized there were a lot more important things to worry about here, and that there was more than enough work to go round. I got over it, and moved on.

Helen, if you had really been paying attention to my change of views (I have no idea why you do though: slightly obsessive?), you'd realize it happened a long long time before I set up my website. It's true that we offer a cv sending service, but this is not anywhere near something which brings us in any significant money: it's just that, a service: it works, people are happy with it, full stop.

I talked to all the schools in Madrid, and of them only 7 specifically asked not to be sent cvs from workers without papers, so basically its a fact of life: schools would not be able to operate here in Madrid without American workers, it's a fact of life, which I had accepted a long time ago.

Helen, if you feel a need to make a personal attack on someone, for whatever bizarre reason, then do try to target it at someone who merits it, and in a more appropriate place: you do not know me, so please do not write about what I think.

[bejarano]

Helen,

Err... Excuse me, I would like to state I mind
illegal American citizens working in Spain very much!

I have just read about the cretin your countrymen voted
for a second term to wage war on the non Christian world
'Dubya' Bush. Not happy with the colonialization and destruction of Iraq
he now wants to build a huge fence on the US - Mexican border.

Now this proposed wall/fence has quite a big approval rating amongst
the American public. The people who are going to be denied jobs, money
and a life worth living are dark skinned Spanish speakers.

Going to the states and having to listen to European-Americans
whinge incessantly about 'Hispanics' 'Latino's' and whatever label
they like to give our Spanish-Ameridian bretheren of which I'm
one is quite tedious and annoying. Especially when the 'Latino's'
in question are only doing the jobs that are too dirty and hard
for the local workforce.

So my point is in case you missed it, is that the day Americans
stop denying darker skinned peoples a shot at a better life in
their country and more importantly stop going into other countries and colonizing them. Stealing the oil while murdering the civillian polulace then I will be a lot more comfortable about the white American
immigrant whinge about their illegal status. The world isn't your playground.

Despite that, I'm all for anyone going anywhere in the world and making a living, wherever it is Australians teaching English in Madrid
or Mexicans cleaning swimming pools in San Diego. Legally or illegally.

It would be nice when you get back to the United States Helen
that you stand shoulder to shoulder with your illegal worker sisterhood
and tell 'Dubya' or the moron that replaces him to tear down his fence on the border and tell everyone you know the next time your countrymen whinge about the 'Illegals' who come to your country and prop up your
economy that you were also in the same boat!

[Helen Frubeck]

Hey Bejarano now you know why I�m in Spain, for your information there are lots of Americans who do not agree with the way George W and his pals are running the country. As you said - people should be allowed to work anywhere! So I would think that translates to - Americans allowed to work in Spain and Mexicans in the US.

Moore: I don�t have to go on a guessing game on what you thought, wrote or left behind on the whole visa/permit of non EU nationals . You�ve done it for yourself! They�re all over the forum, all you need is patience because there�s a lot of it around .

Although you have decided to join in on the �if you can�t beat �em, join �em bandwagon�, for business reasons, you can�t erase what you�ve posted before. There are so many posts on this work permit issue and the best way to make others know the real score is to let them know what has already been written. IN doing this, your old posts ranting about us not paying taxes, us taking away jobs, us not understanding the word ILLEGAL it goes on and on is all over the forum!

There have been other EU & American (with papers) posters who have spoken on this issue but they simply stated objectively what the reality was. People will make their choices and will do what they want.

Your business and your changing sides are not the issues here, don�t flatter yourself, your old posts brought you in on all these. So the point is live and let live �. Don�t you think most Americans teaching in Spain are aware of the conditions anyway?

Americans will always travel, see the world, teach to help them see other countries and that�s the way it will always be. America has its share of problems, we�ve been the cause of many problems, BUT we haven�t always been the bad guy. Before I arrived in Spain, I was kinda apprehensive about the �bad guy� image but you know what? I�ve never been so wrong. The Spanish have been very friendly and most of my Spanish friends actually like Americans and that goes for whether we are legally or illegally teaching English in their country!

Most of the Americans teaching in Spain stay 6 months, 1 year, they go back home, maybe grad school, start work in big corporations, and most of them will bring home great experiences gotten from working and living abroad. We learn another language , learn other cultures and in my opinion this actually makes us see that just like it is with the good ol �US of A , there will be the good and not so good in any country.

By working as an English teacher in Madrid, I�ve been able to see a lot of Europe, budget travelling but yes, I�ve seen a lot and I couldn�t have done this if I depended on savings or my parents! No way! And if I have to do it all over again, I�d do it all over again!

I would, choose to work in Madrid, travel Europe, learn the language and basically be where I am today - , not any richer in euros or dollars but definitely richer in friends, experiences and great memories which will be with me when I head back home next year to start grad school.

So for now, I love my life in Madrid, lots of fun with my Spanish friends, I�m getting real good at the language and I�m looking forward to my short break to Amsterdam from the Nov 9-12 ( Nov 9 is another �fiesta� in Madrid) and I gotta go and dash over to my class in Banco Santander!

Helen

[Nmarie]

Anyway, there is a difference between educated people living abroad, working, and contributing to the economy and poor people entering a country, with a string of kids in tow, and burdening it. This is the case in France, with Maghrebs and Africans bringing multiple wives and families and contributing little to the evolution of the country (Although, this is France's own fault for having colonised those regions!). Some of my friends in California complain about having to pay enormous medical bills in order to compensate for the illegal immigrants who've received medical care but are unable to pay...There has to be a solution to make legality obtainable for all, so that everyone contributes and benefits.

Incidentally, Bejarano, I am not white.

[jr1965]

[bejarano]

[Nmarie]

I am not working illegally in France -- I pay social security and taxes. I think Americans should always try to find a legal route. It takes extreme perseverance, but it can be done.

Rant on if you'd like...

[bejarano]

[Nmarie]

Re-read your own post, Bejarano:

[tim hortons man]

just for reference Europe has had for several years now a fence similar to the one the Americans are planning on building.

Back on topic, if caught working without papers several things are possible. Least likely is being picked up off the street arrested and than deported. Most likely is to be refused entry at the boarder when returning aboard. One only needs to look to America to get an idea of how it works.

I have family who for years and years (20 years or so) lived in America, she had a good job at a prestigious University he, self employed. Being Canadian they traveled back and forth on a regular basis, well one time the Custom's officer (bunch of Nazis they are) noticed a problem with their green cards and refused them entry.

In a moment their life as they knew it in America ended. House car job food in the fridge etc. His brother had to sell the house, pack up all the belongings etc. Point is if you overstay your visa most likely you will be caught at the border.

Generally speaking teaching English is great for a gap year but not a magic bullet to live in Europe forever.

[MO39]