Job Discussion Forums

nomadder · Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2003 8:20 pm Post subject: Western Men in Japan-Wuzupwidat?

I just received an email from a friend who arrived in Japan recently only to find out the owner/director of her school is a "beach from h%ll". To make things worse most of her coworkers are male and she asked, and I quote:

"What's wrong with Western men when they get to Japan? They all seem to be chasing Japanese women and are so hostile towards Western women?"

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm??????

guest of Japan · Joined: 28 Feb 2003 Posts: 1601 Location: Japan

At what level do you think Ms. Roosevelt would place this discussion?

nomadder · Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2003 10:18 pm Post subject:

Perhaps you are a Western male. I see you have no ideas on this widespread phenomenon.

Glenski · Joined: 15 Jan 2003 Posts: 12844 Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN

guest of Japan · Joined: 28 Feb 2003 Posts: 1601 Location: Japan

Your friend's opinion does not make it a widespread phenomenon.

I am a western male. I have seen no evidence in nearly three years here to support your theory that most western men are hostile to western women. I'm sure there are examples to use in your argument just like I could find examples to argue the same argument conversely. For example: your post.

Maybe your friend is suffering from the dilemna she describes, but look at some other possibilities.

1. She's new to the job. This means that her coworkers are picking up the slack for her while she adjusts to the job. They are obviously going to resent the excess work.

2. Perhaps your friend's personality does not mesh with the people she works with.

3. Perhaps your friend isn't very respectful to her coworkers, and in turn receives a hostile attitude.

4. Again, as your friend is new, she is walking into her coworkers pre-established lives. Just because she is from a western country does not mean that she is going to be welcomed with open arms into the lives of people who have seen new teachers come and go.

My theory is that if your boss is hostile and your coworkers are hostile then you are the problem and therefore have to make the necessary adjustments to rectify the situation.

As to the chasing of Japanese women argument, men are well known to chase women. There happen to be a lot of Japanese women in Japan. Some people prefer Japanese women, some prefer western women, and some are gay. Some don't chase at all, some are married and have thusly stopped chasing, and some are the chased.

People are individuals and thusly have individual perceptions and experiences of life in Japan.

nomadder · Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2003 1:11 pm Post subject:

I think her perspective is interesting since she can compare the men's attitude to the Western males she just left in N.Am. I think the men in Japan don't realize how they do change over there. It is widespread-one look around and you see copious examples of it. Hostile does seem a bit strong of a word to use I agree. More often it seems like extreme indifference and disinterest but there are a few who get carried away with their new god-like status. It would be more difficult to see if you're male.

Perhaps females would be more apt to help a new coworker settle in to a new place. Most men would only help if they were romantically interested I suppose.

guest of Japan · Joined: 28 Feb 2003 Posts: 1601 Location: Japan

Your blanket statements have too many holes in them to keep your ideas warm at night.

Could you please provide specific details of experiences to support your theory.

canuck · Joined: 11 May 2003 Posts: 1921 Location: Japan

Most "Western men" stay stay longer than "Western women" in Japan teaching English. There is a belief that while many guys are here, it's more interesting to date Japanese women, because you can always date "Western women from your home country" when you get back.

Most people go back.

Guys that date Japanese women often like the increased attention, exotic nature to Japanese compared to women they've seen all their lives, the fact they can practice their Japanese etc. Many "Western women" don't date Japanese guys because of either a language barrier or the fact many Japanese guys are intimidated by "Western women". I'm also not saying that there isn't a language barrier with guys date Japanese women, but more times or not, many guys don't care as much as women do. Of course, these are pretty general statements, but there is a hint of truth.

In addition, there are many more Japanese women in Japan which makes the odds of dating one versus the low number of foreign women much greater.

nomadder · Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2003 10:50 pm Post subject:

Quite true Canuck but do you think that due to this special attention from Japanese women that maybe they tend to shun and ignore Western women? Maybe women would do the same if we could find such a situation.

nomadder · Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2003 11:00 pm Post subject:

PS

Hey Sister thanks for the supportive PM. It's worse than we thought.

foster · Joined: 07 Feb 2003 Posts: 485 Location: Honkers, SARS

I read it described on another forum as the 2-10 idea. Men that were a '2' in their home country come to Japan to find that they are treated as though they are a '10'. Western women don't do this, so they avoid us. We tell them like it is. We don't coodle them and tell them oh poor baby and cook and clean up after them. Many Japanese women do this.

Many of the western men in my old office dated multiple Japanese women at one time. Sorry to say, but they were men that would be hard pressed to find female company back on their own soil. This is not my generalisation..the men admitted as much as well.

Western women are too opinionated for Japanese men. There are other issues, but our strong will and mind is one thing that turns them off of us. What turns us off of Japanese men....well....everyone has their reasons.

The language barrier is an issue for everyone, but as it was stated, some men really don't care. One guy told that the less she understands, the less she can complain about...and he was quite happy with that. personally, it would bother me to no end if my date was unable to converse with me in a natural way..in any language.

So, yes, regardless of your friend being new, I truly think that western men do change when they get to Asia. I dont think this is just a Japanese occurance.

Tell her to find some good strong female friends and forget the men...

guest of Japan · Joined: 28 Feb 2003 Posts: 1601 Location: Japan

Is the subject dating preferences and idiosyncracies or relations with coworkers?

nomadder · Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2003 12:31 pm Post subject:

Right on Foster! As Guest of Japan seems to show, another change among some men in Asia is they seem to lose their grasp on the English language. Must be too busy speaking Japengrish with the gals who think all white men are catches. I often thought they had themselves set on having half white babies. Then again the Japanese are very status conscious-Louis Vuitton handbag, white guy-either on your arm will do.

guest of Japan · Joined: 28 Feb 2003 Posts: 1601 Location: Japan

Umm. Have you taken a look at your own grammar?

Also, the racism that you show toward the Japanese people is intolerable.

mr pink · Joined: 12 Jul 2003 Posts: 53 Location: China

I too enjoy going on rants. There are many things I find that I don't like or can't understand about the culture I've chosen to live in, the living conditions, coworkers, etc. This is the first thread that is generally complaining about men in Asia.

Congratulations!

Nomader, I usually enjoy reading your posts, but if you feel this way about men, why did you bother bringing up your friend's problems when you seem to have enough of your own.

mr pink