Job Discussion Forums

[Canuck2112]

I'll be leaving for Japan in late November, and in the meantime I'd like to learn some rudimentary Japanese. From what I've been told it isn't that hard to learn. Does anyone have any opinions on this? Also, are there any good home study courses for Japanese? I'd rather learn in a classroom but the nearest school that offers the language is quite a hike from where I live

Thanks

[homersimpson]

As with any language, there are many nuances in the Japanese language that are difficult to pick up on, even after years of studying. In addition, there are several expressions in Japanese that do not translate nicely into English and are used in a variety of situations. Then you have to factor in the three writing systems used in Japan that you will be unable to read initially. It's been my experience that those who seriously study the language pick it up rather quickly. But, again, there are many subtleties that make Japanese often difficult to comprehend. That said, a survival level of Japanese should be easily obtained even by the laziest of us!

[PAULH]

Canuck

I can only offer you my opinion but a lot will depend I think of whether you simply want to learn how to speak the langauge or learn how to read and write as well. If you study consistently it is possible to pick up the basics in 6-12 months- it took me about 18 months to get a handle of basic level grammar. Learning to read and write will take you anything form 3-5 years of full time study. If you just want to learn the basics it is possible to get by with a few hundred Kanji or less. There are only something like 53 sounds in the Japanese syllabary and its fairly easy to learn to sound the language as its fairly regular. You may have problems as there are many homophones (same sounding words) in Japanese that you can only tell the difference by context or by reading the Kanji characters.

Verb endings are more regular than English, so once you know the patterns you can apply them to almost any verb in Japanese- they dont have irregular verbs like English does. Another thing is that often personal pronouns such as "you", "I" "he" etc are dropped off in Japanese and they can usually tell whom is being referred to- this is another difference from English.

As to whether Japanese is 'difficult' that is a relative term: keep in mind that Japanese has a totally different writing system grammar (verbs are at the end of Japanese sentences and they have a heavy use of particles) and vocabulary that has no relation to English, but originally comes from Chinese. It is easier for Koreans and Chinese learn japanese than people from english-speaking countries, but that is not to say it is impossible. I myself know about a thousand Kanji and 5000 or so vocabulary. It is possible to pick up the language if you have a lot of free time ( a carce commodity if you are working at a language school all day) and are persistent.

[Glenski]

[TokyoLiz]

Essential Japanese by Gene Nishi

The book covers the sound system, use of tones to distinguish homophones, kana, basic kanji and commonly used grammar structures. The grammar sections are very logically put together and there are lots of lists of verbs, adjectives and adverbs. Each example sentence is written in both Japanese and romaji, which is helpful until you get the hang of kana and kanji.

I don't know about Japanese being easy...If anything, the sound system is easy to master. Sometimes I get mistaken for a native speaker over the phone or until my listener looks up from their desk, but I wouldn't say I'm fluent. I've been studying Japanese and living in the language off and on for the past 10 years.

Another great tool is NJ Star, a word processing program that you can download off the internet. The bilingual dictionary, kanji lookup and kanji radical lookup really help when it comes to learning the meanings of kanji and their many readings.

[homersimpson]

Another thing to consider about speaking Japanese is the vocabulary used in specific situations. As has been posted above, there is a polite and a more informal way of speaking. As a foreigner, if you use the casual form, most Japanese will simply shrug it off and be surprised you speak any Japanese at all. However, there are certain situations when this will not be appropriate (espcially if your stay in Japan exceeds 3 years). I'm now expected by many to not onlly speak fluently but be able to translate as well.
In my experience there are (at least) three levels of spoken Japanese depending on the situation. Japan is still a culture based on social standing (not as extreme as the caste system, but definitely much different from the U.S.). That is to say one uses different vocabulary and verb forms when speaking to a boss or other with a "higher" standing, a friend, or a 12-year-old student. For example, I rarely, if ever, use the -masu form of a verb when speaking to my junior high school students. It's not because I think myself superior, it's just that a teacher has a much different social standing than a student. This is especially true of male teachers. I don't think I've ever heard a male Japanese teacher use the words "kudasai" or "onegaishimasu" in a conversation with a student.

[BenJ]

are there japanese-for-english-speakers books readily findable in bookstores in the cities or is it a better idea to bring from home?

[PAULH]

If you go to the big book stores like Maruzen and Kinokuniya you can find books for studying Japanese- there are a variety of them but the most common one I have heard of is "Japanese For Busy People" which assumes no knowledge of Kanji (Japanese characters) and starts you at the beginning. Grammar points and exercises are explained in English with romanji script throughout. The big book stores tend to be expensive so it may be worthwhile bringing books from home or ordering off Amazon.com. I order teacher resource books off Amazon and they cost 60% of what they cost in the bookstorews, even with postage from the US.

However if you want to advance in the language I recommend learning at least hiragana and katakana syllabary first as very little is written or used here in "romanji" (roman script) even by Japanese. For Japanese a lot of meaning becomes lost or ambiguous as they derive word meaning and syntax from the Kanji characters which disappears when you use roman lettering. Someone once told me that learning Japanese without learning Kanji is like running around Mt Fuji without actually climbing it. Food for thought.

[Glenski]

[BenJ]

going to Nagoya

Thanks for the headsup

[PAULH]

Ben

FWIW

theres a Maruzen bookstore near Sakae (central Nagoya, two stops on the subway from Nagoya station) and the foreign books are on the 2nd floor. Plenty of Japanese langauge learning materials. i would also not overlook Nihongo Journal, a monthly magazine that comes out complete with free CD of dialogs and exercises etc.

[Canuck2112]

Thanks for the help everybody!

[nomadder]

I didn't do as well in Japanese as I had hoped despite previously doing well in Latin languages. Obviously Japan has little in common with Latin languages except for the borrowed words (with their different pronunciation).

I sort of gave up on fluency after a few bad teachers(old people who volunteered). Perhaps if I had paid for lessons I would have fared better. I knew lots of words but couldn't really string them together well.

My favorite book is perhaps not on this list. I forget the title and it's packed away somewhere but it was salmon colored for the first level and green for the second level if that helps. I also didn't get too far with kanji though I could read the other 2. Still when many words are kanji only or begin with kanji and end in hiragana then the other 2 don't help too much. To learn hiragana and katakana I had a book that made the symbols resemble pictures and had an English word to help you remember. Again sorry I don't know the name.

So for me it was difficult but others seemed to do well. Of the people I met less than 50% would be considered fluent. Maybe if I'd been younger when I arrived it would have helped. Good Luck!

[Lynn]

Once you get over the shock that Japanese is unlike English or Spanish(this usually takes a year or so), Japanese is quite easy to speak. I speak Japanese fluently, however I can't read very well. I really regret not studying kanji. I am so lazy now; everytime I have to read something, I find a Japanese person to read it aloud or I just give up. Study reading as well as speaking.

[nomadder]

I think the books I referred to above could be Japanese For Everyone and Kana Made Easy.

Encouraging Lynn. If I go back I think I'll do better especially with basic Japanese already in my memory somewhere. I would study kanji too(another shock that took awhile to get over-like until about a year after I left ).