Job Discussion Forums

[Egas]

I'm thinking of making the big shift from China to Japan. Before I go I'd like to get an idea of how much I might be able to earn (and save) in Japan. I've scoured the job board here on Dave's and the standard pay seems to be 250 000. But I suspect that is the absolute bottom line, as most schools advertising on Dave's do so to get naive out-of-towners at cheap rates. Otherwise why don't they just hire from the pool of qualified teachers in Japan?

Anyway, I'm 37 years old, have taught English for thirteen years, but only the last four years have been ESL (the rest was high school teaching in Australia and New Zealand). I have a BA with honors and a postgrad. Diploma of Education majoring in English and History teaching. I am half-way through a PhD as well. But I have no ESL qualification, as other than to get a piece of paper to stick on the wall, they seem totally useless for an experienced English teacher. I've also done my time as a director of studies in a Chinese uni. English foundation program, and as a head teacher in a Taiwanese cram school.

I can speak half-decent Chinese as well, which should go down well in Japan!

Any info. would be greatly appreciated.

Egas

[PAULH]

Egas

you dont really say where you want to work (conversation school, high school university?)

With a Masters degree (major in EFL, English or Linguistics preferred) you can apply for part time university teaching jobs. Part time is 2-4 classes a day, 2 or 3 times a week. Pay per class is now about 25,000 yen per month for a 90 minute class. You can make good money if you are teaching at several places but there is a lot of commuting and very little job security, not to mention no bonuses or pension etc.

Full time salaries vary as it depends on age, qualifications and number of publications (necessary for full time positions) but salaries including yearly bonuses for someone in their thirties with a Masters is around 6-7 million yen per year on average. A lot depends also on whether you teach at a private university or a government-run one.

[Glenski]

[Glenski]

Just so everyone knows, in my salary figures for those 14 high schools, junior high schools, kindergartens, and elementary schools, 3 did not list a salary in the ad.

[Glenski]

Jen and Egas,

Paul hasn't mentioned it (yet), but even though you can work part-time jobs at universities with your qualifications, you are likely not going to get visa sponsorship for them.

As usual, exceptions exist, but not abound.

[PAULH]

Jen

I would take me too long to explain here but if you email me I can send you some info and links I have on teaching at universities that will answer many of your questions. I teach full time now at a Japanese university.

My email is [email protected]



Considering your qualifications, you are qualified for part time work at university jobs- for full time you will need at least 3 academic publications (preferably refereed), previous college teaching experience (college teaching in China probably wont count for very much in Japan, as academic standards and quality of teachers varies so much).

Getting part time jobs is not just about what you know but WHO you know, many jobs are not publicly advertised, those that are have 30-40 aplicants for each position. getting an interview is about having the requisite qualifications, contacts, good timing and LUCK. I taught part time for about ten years and it takes a while to build up a full schedule of college classes, many referred to me by friends, 'inside' tips or fortuitous job openings when someone left etc.

I would recommend reading the guide to getting university jobs on http://www.eltnews.com, and the Language teacher publication on http://jalt.org has a university jobs page.

http://www.debito.org/univquestions.html has a good page for those seeking full time positions.

[PAULH]

here is the JALT jobs page

http://www.jalt-publications.org/tlt/jobs/

[ryuro]

Ok, here's my 2 yen on the subject...

I don't want to be redundant with details 'cause I think Glenski and PAULH have done a great job covering this topic so let me just say I agree with them and then cut right to my point.

I have to be brutally honest- I've recruited for every type of outfit imaginable in Japan- eikaiwas, jr. high schools, senior high schools, colleges, etc... and with the exception of the university level and international high schools (REAL international schools) high flying credentials and to some extent experience generally mean diddly and squat! And as it was mentioned you CAN be considered overqualified.

13 years of experience, speaking another language, having a masters... all that is great, but what my Japanese bosses want to know is how do you feel about running around, playing games, singing songs and acting a bit silly with children because that IS the market these days and into the foreseeable future. With the economy still in the doldrums, Japanese generally will not splurge on things like English lessons for themselves, but they'll fork over a heap for their children- now as young as 1 year old! With the economy being what it is, and the market skewing toward teaching young children, it's true 250,000 isn't the lowest, it's going LOWER.

Sorry, but that's simply what I've found. The universities are defintitely looking for those with masters and published materials while the international schools require accredited teaching credentials for whatever subject you want to teach. All the other organizations simply want somebody with the credentials and/or ability to obtain the proper working visa. The kind of persons my current employers would NOT want me to hire would be someone with a masters and years of experience (and this is for high school and college positions as well as children's teachers).

Why? Because they know such people aren't gonna wanna stay and will be looking for that "high-paying" job the moment they hit the ground here.

The other kicker is (and I think I wrote about this on another thread on this board) that those plum jobs (universities and international schools) where all that experience and those credentials would help you, are probably gonna be snapped up by people currently living in Japan who have paid their dues in the English teaching system. You'd be surprised at how many teachers with heaps of experience and masters degrees are already here in Japan, working in eikaiwas for 250,000/month and combing the want ads or networking to find that university gigg or international school hook-up. I think as PAULH mentioned on another thread it's a lot of networking and LUCK, LUCK, LUCK! Most of those jobs are handed off to a friend of the departing teacher.

So my advice for what it's worth after that little rant- first read everything Glenski and PAULH have ever posted because- damn- they know their stuff! And if you're still thinking of coming over here take what ya can get at first (250,000 IS the going rate) and then join the fray of high paying job seekers already here. A visit to a shrine prayin' for a little luck couldn't hurt.

Cheers,
ryuro

[Egas]

Thanks guys (Ryuru, are you a guy too?). That's some of the most detailed info I've ever received on Dave's - thanks esp to Glenski for all that. I'm rethinking tjhe move now! I'm not sure I want to teach kids again - did it in Taiwan, and while I love kids it can be really draining after a couple of years.

I don't have a masters. I have an honors degree, which must be the most frustrating degree to have in Asia because no-one recognises it. And in many ways it is more difficult than a masters (well, some I've looked at) - entry requiremennts are much higher and thus competition is much greater. I was talking to a woman the other day who just finished her masters. Her masters was exactly the same as my honors - a 15 000 word minor thesis and three subjects. In fact she finished her Masters in less than a year. I had to take a little more than a year to do my honors as the workload was just so overwhelming. I know another woman who did her masters in two summers of work - two three month stints of full-time work! I must say I feel a bit cheated having done honors and having no-one recognise it. I've even had employers here tell me its the same as a bachelors degree in the USA. Like hell is is! So, anyway, I won't be doing any uni work in Japan till I finish my PhD.

[sutekigaijin]

Hey Egas,
Those full-time university jobs can be very hard to get. You either have to have really high and specialized qualifications and / or connections to get one. I certainly wouldn't expect to get one anytime soon.

Having said that, I may be better off doing what I'm doing. I teach at a high school (full-time) and I work quite a few hours for another company that pays pretty well (teaching TOEFL, TOEIC, and other classes). My schedule is very full and I have had turn down a lot of work from other companies and several private students. My monthly income is just above 600,000 yen per month. Sure, I'm busy but I also have my share of free time. I still have room for additional classes but I am fairly content with my workload.

If you are choosy and patient with the work you take, you can put together some pretty profitable positions. In fact, I may be changing my schedule very soon in order to accept a new job that could easily put my monthly income up into the 700,000 - 800,000 range. I won't get rich here but it is certainly a comfortable life with the potential to save plenty.

So the full-time and/or tenured university jobs might be a good living but I am sure they wouldn't be much more profitable than my situation. Plus, I have more flexibility due to my p/t job(s).

Good luck. Once you get you feet wet here, I'm sure you'll learn how to wheel and deal.

[canuck]

[PAULH]

I was tempted to respond but seeing as the original poster doesnt have a Masters yet uni jobs are not open to him, I think there are a lot of things that sutei gaijin has not taken into account (and I can speak from personal experience here) and there is a lot he is NOT saying in his post.

Im sure you can make that kind of money teaching companies etc but as Canuck mentions, you have a full time job working at a high school, probably starting at 8.30 in the morning, and finishing classes at 9 or 10 o'clock at night, a full 12-14 hour day. Chances are at a high school you work on weekends as well.

If you are fairly young and energetic Im sure you could handle it for a year or two but do you really think you can keep up a 60-70 hour work week for 3, 5 or 10 years? What do you do if you have a wife, family or small children? the reason many Japanese marriages are a mess is because the husband is missing in action, coming home at 10 o'clock or midnight and leaving at 7 in the morning and never get to see their kids or have meals with them, go to school PTA meetings or the school festival. Sure you are making 700,000 yen a month but you really dont have a life when you are working 12-14 hours a day. I know of wealthy Japanese self-employed business people, doctors whos wives are alienated from them because they are never home for them or their kids.

Also if you want to consider acquiring extra qualifications to get a university job (Im doing a postgraduate degree by distance myself) you will need time to study and do research, attend lectures, write papers, as well as read to your kids etc. Pretty hard to see how you can do that when you are working 60 hours a week until 10 at night.

FWIW I earn close to the figure that he is talking about but what he is has left out is that as a full time university teacher I earn 5 months annual bonus on top of monthly income every year, get a research grant of about 300,000 yen a year, travel allowance to attend conferences, and not only that teach only 10 classes a week. Company classes do not provide these kinds of hours, nor do you get your pension or medical insurance paid for.
BTW I would not really say that earning such an income is 'profitable' as that implies earnings left over after paying expenses, like a business profit, for example, and possible loss. I would be more inclined to say 'lucrative' than 'profitable'

Sutekigaijin- what kind of commuting are you doing every day? When i was teaching part time I was commuting to 5 different schools every week, spending up to an hour and a half each way to get to work, the furthest being over 2 hours, one way. Im not saying this is the case with you, but you have to consider each persons personal circumstances into account,

[Egas]

There are two reasons why I felt the 250 000 quoted in most ads on Dave's might be lower than the actual average. Firstly, here in China there is an enormous difference in the pay that schools offer. Many offer 3 000 - 5000 Yuan (about 300-650 US bucks a month). I've had other offers of 14 000, 15 000 and 18 000 Yuan. (I knocked them all back, by the way!) (up to US$2 200). That's pretty good pay in a county where you can live on 4 000 Yuan if you live a moderate (but decent) lifestyle). I'm referring to Beijing here, one of the more expensive places to live in China. And I was lucky enough to get a six month contact at an ineternatioanl school last year and they were paying me 40 000 Yuan a month tax free (no holiday pay), which works out at about US$5 000. Unfortunately they didn't extend my contract, although I am now doing substitute teaching there at US$120 a day for really easy work. But you never know how many days work you will get in a week, although I average 3-4.

As for going to Japan and working like a Japanese man to earn big bucks, how am I gonna do that and find the time to work on my PhD? I was in Japan a while back and saw those Japanese guys running for the trains like wanted men in the morning, then sleeping exhausted on the trains at late evening as they returned home. As we say in Australia "Bugger that!" I couldn't believe what I was seeing. What price for "the economic miracle?"

The second reason I was suspicious of the 250 000Yen figure is that a guy I met here in China (he was holidaying) told me he was earning around 600 000 there.

[Glenski]

Anyone earning that figure in the eikaiwa business is working several gigs part-time, and he/she is probably working 6-7 days a week to do that. It is definitely not the norm. You really have to be an eager beaver to scramble for such a combination of lucrative work.

[PAULH]