Job Discussion Forums

[elliot_spencer]

hey guys, after reading the Italyforum, I was wondering, how do you guys cope? I mean, only getting paid frm sep/oct till may/june, what do you do money wise through the draught? Italy is amazing, but, surely having to do summer school back in the uk every summer defeats the object. Keen to hear esp from those of u in Puglia.



Thanks

Elliot

[SueH]

I imagine there are a variety of situations. Those who work all hours when they're available, those who find a niche during the summer (tour guide, summer school, tutoring 'failing' kids), those who do a UK summer school (which is an opportunity to visit family and friends), those in partnerships with two incomes, those who subsidise a year here from their savings (been some on this board), those of us who are retired or have other income....

Doubt if you'll find two of us the same....

[Jetgirly]

My school paid from the beginning of September until the end of July (with half a month's pay for December as the school was closed for two weeks). If you can't live off that then either your school is totally ripping you off (as opposed to sort of ripping you off, which seems like the norm for Italian schools) or you're terrible at managing your money. It's not like this big surprise comes on July 31st when the DOS says, "Oh, by the way, there won't be any work or pay in August..."

[elliot_spencer]

Hey, thanks for the replies. Yes, I understand that, but, what about the schools in the south that pay only 900euro a month from Oct - May with no benefits. How do teachers cope. I saw a job in Bari, a city i love, but, it pays 900 euro from Oct - May. Therefore, I think it's impossible to save any money a month for the 3 month dry period, let alone for future savings. SO, how is it done. IS there any summer camps in BAri etc. IS anyone is BAri or Puglia?

Thanks

[ilaria]

This summer job is for 2008, right? Seriously, don't panic about it now. When you're actually here you'll build up a network of personal contacts, unless of course you have no social skills whatsoever. Jobs (well, good jobs) are found in Italy through friends, friends of friends, cousins of mothers-in-law of friends, etc. You've found a good school in a city you like. Go for it and stop worrying!

[Betti]

I second Ilaria's comments and add some of my own: I worked in the south of Italy for a basic salary of 850 euros before tax. At the time I wondered whether I would be able to survive on this but I did and I always had money left over at the end of the month. With the inevitable overtime I was always earning above this rate and the cost of living was so low that there was always money left over...not enough to exactly call savings but enough to live well within my means - something that I've never mastered in the UK!!

[elliot_spencer]

Thanks guys for your helpful posts. I will be coming to Italy this year, prob Sept when the schools start again and I've saved some cash.

If I can just explain my situation. I was wanting to settle in Italy (if things dont work, maybe Madrid or Taiwan) I have a keen eye on Lord Byron College in Bari, as I am hoping to get the DELTA and they look like they'll offer me support for my first teaching role, I did however get a 2.1 in my teaching degree and an 'A' in my celta) I noticed that they offer contracts from Oct-May and a possibility of working over the summer if classes run, so, you get paid for what you work, not salaried. Durning the normal contract it's 900 euro net pre-delta and 1020 net post-delta. I don't mind returning to UK summer school for 1 month a year, but suppose when I am 60 will start to drag! ha-ha but, what concerns me is lack of pension and TRF. With the help of my family, I can buy a house (not for me, but my parents will buy a summer house as my mum is italian and I'll live in it year round) with the help of my family, so Iguess that is covered.

Secondly, I am in talks with a job in a city that does not have a good reputation, and although I like the city, I much perefr to live and settle in Bari. The only plus point is, this school offeres contracts from sept-june/july, with a gaurentee of min hours a month and pays 12.50euro an hour with pleanty of overtime. After 2/3 years, the school will offer a permanent contract with full benefits.

Any advice?

[Jetgirly]

My advice would be to find out the exact number of hours you'd be working each week or month at the school in Bari. Make sure that anything above and beyond that will result in overtime pay. Think hard about what you'd do if the school was only able to offer you fifteen hours per week (as you don't mention a guaranteed number of hours in Bari). Language schools will string you along as a temporary worker year after year. I had some colleagues in Torino who had been working for the same school for fifteen years on temporary contracts that expired each July 31st and started again on September 1st. I've been told that this is illegal but the government has better things to do than look out for foreigners. One of my coworkers got around this by sticking with the school for a few years, making the school reliant on her, and then coming back in September with a brand-new work permit saying she was now self-employed and if the school wanted her they would have to hire "her company" as a contractor. This way she was able to start paying into a pension plan and she received holiday pay, sick pay, etc. Other teachers with teaching certificates transitioned into the public school system. You're not aiming very high if you still see yourself working in the same school in the same capacity at 60.

[elliot_spencer]

the school in Bari, (Lord Byron College) pay a salary of 900 euro x month I think for 28 hours, I am not sure there is overtime as IT IS A SALARIED POSITION.

The school in the other city does offer me the benefits your friend gets, so, would you go to city or job?|

[Jetgirly]

Elliot - I would be very uncomfortable taking a salaried position without knowing the workload. Twenty-eight hours of teaching each week is on the high end, especially when you add in lesson prep. Twenty-eight hours each week is borderline unmanageable for a new teacher (as you say this is your first teaching role) who doesn't already have a library of favorite lesson plans and activities. Once you've been at it for a year you can think, "Oh, the present perfect!", go to your filing cabinet and grab your favorite resources. When you first start out, it's a lot more labour-intensive. What will you do if they ask/demand you to teach even more hours on the same salary? Are all of the hours in the actual school, or might they ask you to take on in-company work? If you do in-company work, will they reimburse you for mileage and travel time? You owe it to yourself to know what you're getting into.

When I lived in Torino and was a NEW teacher, I had to teach about twenty hours per week to make enough money to live normally (rent, bills, food, eating out a few times each week, drinking a bit, shopping at Mango/Zara/H&M [not D&G], etc). Anything above those twenty hours went into my "discretionary savings" and paid for long-weekend trips, big summer holidays, shopping splurges, excessive weekend drinking, etc. If salaries in Bari are lower, the ratio should still be the same (because the cost of living will also be lower). If you're teaching twenty-eight hours per week and just scraping by, you're underpaid. Keep that in mind when you're comparing jobs.

Nobody can tell you what to do, but Italy is notorious for treating foriegn teachers poorly and if you fail to obtain ALL of the relevant information from a potential employer, you're only hurting yourself. Also, by being fairly "hard hitting" during the inquiry/interview phase you let the school know that they can't walk all over you.

[Teacher in Rome]

[elliot_spencer]

yes, I've been able to speak to current and past teachers who have informed me that this is correct.

Also, even if it were not, I'm guessing a 11 month contrct is better than a 9 month!

Can I ask, what lengeth of contracts areyou all on and what do you guys do for pension payments and summer etc?

Thanks

[Betti]

At some point you are just going to have to take a risk. It is unlikely that you will ever become rich in this business. No two schools are alike and what suits one person may not suit another. However, you have to get your first year's teaching under your belt. In my opinion it is better to find a place which you like rather than to go to another city you don't like so much because the money is better. I echo previous posts - I ended up teaching 30 hours a week in my first year - this is ALOT to take on board. All schools differ, but my one insisted on a full lesson plan for EVERY lesson and even with repeats it meant a ridiculous amount of hours spent at the school. I am a tough cookie (or very stupid!!) and survived - many others fell by the wayside. TEFL is not for the faint hearted and is not a job a that offers the same guarantees as most other industries. Decide on the place that you want to go to and research to see what schools operate from there. Keep checking tefl.com - you will notice that the same jobs come up reguarly (ie. several times a year) - be warned - these are usually places that don't value their teachers. Good luck!

[ilaria]

Betti said:

[SueH]

Elliot, I think you've received some pretty good advice here. I also think that one of the reasons the schools like younger teachers is that they are the only ones with sufficient energy to do those 28 hours! I certainly couldn't do it on a sustained basis, though have short term. Do watch out for travel time and costs: I've known people majorly caught out by this. Having maximum hours for salaried is vital, even if over the year, so keep a good record of hours worked if they say they want you "to work more hours now but less later" [ha!]. Have a bit of money put aside so that you do feel confident to say 'no' occasionally, and can then handle the transition to another job or freelance.

Betti - can I ask what did your school actually did with all your full lesson plans - sounds worse than state education in the UK!